European Football 2012

[citybone]

I know its a long way off yet but a little info here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2...ampions_League Irish League Champions will face pre qualifying, Uncertain will Shamrocks be seeded in the 2nd qualifying round or not. will have to wait and see who qualifies from other leagues first.
In the Europa league http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2..._Europa_League
it has Derry down for the first Qualifying round with Pats but we know Derry may not get to play in this round. Reasonable possibility that one of the LOI clubs could face a Irish league team or Welsh League team in the 1st qualifying round. Easier ties and shorter trips. Maybe not for Bohs if they get in and face a welsh side ;-)

[PartySaint]

Pats will be seeded in the first round and if we were to get through we might be seeded in the second round depending on who qualifies

[citybone]

Agreed yee have a good co-effecient, Derry have to start from scratch co-effecient wise but would be seeded in the 1st round alright. If Bohs are allowed in then their ranking would be low also and may not be seeded in the 2nd rounds as their results in Europe were not great but would be seeded in the first round also.

[SkStu]

Reasonable possibility that one of the LOI clubs could face a Irish league team or Welsh League team in the 1st qualifying round. Easier ties and shorter trips. Maybe not for Bohs if they get in and face a welsh side ;-)

Totally Not Sound.

[JayC90]

It looks very unlikely that Shamrock Rovers will be seeded in the 2nd Qualifying Round of next year's Champions League. They need 17 clubs to have a lower team co-efficient than them (Rovers co-efficient is 4.475) to be pushed into the seeded side of the draw and as things stand, only the following 13 clubs are below them (if league is still in progress I've noted which team in that country has the highest possible team co-efficient):

Bosnian league still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is FK Sarajevo with 4.183
Molde FK 3.935 (Champions)
KR Reykjavik 3.566 (Champions)
Montenegrin league still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is FK Mogren with 3.375
Welsh League still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is Bangor with 3.049
Albanian league still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is SK Tirana with 2.783
Macedonian league still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is FK Renova with 2.633
Flora Tallinn 2.283 (Champions)
Shakhtar Karagandy 1.816 (Champions)
Ulisses Yerevan 0.941 (Champions)
Northern Irish league still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is Linfield with 2.766
B36 Torshavn 0.533 (Champions)
Maltese league is still in progress but team with highest co-efficient is Birkirkara with 2.116

Surprising to note that Molde of Norway will definitely be unseeded, while Ekranas, the Lithuanian champions (4.875) and Ventspils, the Latvian champions (5.674), have a higher co-efficient than Rovers. It shows, more than anything else, how the team co-efficient system rewards teams qualifying for Europe year after year, but not necessarily progressing through many rounds.

For Rovers to be seeded, they'll need 4 more clubs with a lower co-efficient than theirs to finish as champions of their respective leagues. This is only possible in 5 leagues that are ongoing at the minute.

In the Georgian league, Zestafoni currently lead Torpedo Kutaisi by 4 points. Zestafoni (4.733) have a higher co-efficient than Rovers, while Kutaisi (1.733) do not, so they'll need Kutaisi to win the league.
In the Azeri league, Qarabag Agdam (5.241) are the only team with a higher co-efficient than Rovers and they're in 5th place 8 points behind the leaders, Neftchi Baku. As long as someone other than Qarabag wins the league, the Azeri representative will be seeded below Rovers.
In the Slovenian league, NK Maribor (6.424) are the only team with a higher co-efficient than Rovers, however they're top of the league by 15 points so it looks unlikely that they won't finish as champions.
In the Hungarian league, Debrecen (7.950) are the only team with a higher co-efficient than Rovers, and they're top of the league, ahead of Gyor by 4 points.
In the Moldovan league, Sheriff (9.849) are the only team with a higher co-efficient than Rovers and are ahead of Dacia Chisinau in the league by 2 points.

The Slovenian league looks like a lost cause, and it's highly unlikely that all 4 other leagues will go Rovers' way, but it will be interesting to keep an eye on nevertheless. Apologies to anyone who I've bored to death.

[PartySaint]

That's some top quality research

Co-efficient nerds unite!!

[bennocelt]

Apologies to anyone who I've bored to death.

Never
jeez i thought i was bad with the co efficients, have Berts site bookmarked with regular checks
I think Rovers could do well again next season.

[PartySaint]

Never
jeez i thought i was bad with the co efficients, have Berts site bookmarked with regular checks
I think Rovers could do well again next season.

If they aren't seeded they could be in trouble, some very good teams start in that round so they will need to be lucky with the draw

Interesting to note that despite Rovers getting to the EL group stages this year we are still the highest ranked Irish club

Ireland's European Club

[citybone]

Cork City were better than pats in Europe but then we imploded thanks to TNB and ARKADA. We will be in Europe soon again and regain our coefficients.

[Dodge]

For Europa League,
In the first round ofthe Europa League, here’s how the 33 teams rank from the Northern region. *Fair play teams are likely to be added, and will probably be ranked in the higher half. *We don’t know the qualifiers from Wales, Luxembourg or the North. *The Estonian cup final is in 2012. *I’ve given them the highest rank available (eg in Wales Bangor are 3.049), so those 10 teams may be seeded lower (substantially in the case of Wales/NI)
Rosenborg
20.935
Elfsborg (Boras)
10.180
Kalmar
7.180
Latvia
5.674
St Patrick's Athletic
4.975
FH
3.566
Estonia (cup winners)
3.533
Vaduz
3.300
Liepâjas Metalurgs
3.174
Wales
3.049
Luxembourg
2.966
Sûduva (Marijampolë)
2.875
Wales
2.799
Northern Ireland
2.766
Luxembourg
2.716
Derry City
2.475
Lithuania
2.375
KuPS (Kuopio)
2.326
Northern Ireland
2.266
EB/Streymur
2.033
JJK ( Jyväskylä)
1.826
Northern Ireland
1.766
Daugava Daugavpils
1.674
Wales
1.549
Luxembourg
1.466
Žalgiris (Vilnius)
1.375
IBV
1.316
Trans (Narva)
1.283
Por Akureyri
1.066
Zhetysu (Taldykorgan)
1.066
Kalju (Tallinn)
1.033
NSÍ Runavík
1.033
Víkingur
0.783
Pats are definitely seeded. *

Derry are on the bubble if they retain their points. *Not seeded if they’re a new club

Bohs would be seeded if they replace Derry.(their seeding is 3.975)

--

[Dodge]

Cork City were better than pats in Europe but then we imploded thanks to TNB and ARKADA. We will be in Europe soon again and regain our coefficients.

Ranking ties won by Cork in their history; 4
Ranking ties won by Pats the last 3 times they've entered; 6

In conclusion, shurrup

[ger121]

Could be very tough for Rovers alright. Is the 2nd round draw regionalised?

[Dodge]

No rounds in CL are regionalised. Only the first round in Europa is regionalised (and even that's unofficial)

[ger121]

No rounds in CL are regionalised. Only the first round in Europa is regionalised (and even that's unofficial)

Ah ok. Thought it might be, seeing as we got TNS in 2010 and Rovers got Talinn in 2011 who are both teams you would find in a Northern Region

[citybone]

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/ecr40.htm We are better according to statistics. They site was better before done the last 25 years instead of 42 years.

[ger121]

Just doing a little research and have noticed that in Israel. Hapoel Kiryat Shmona FC are leading their league by 10 points after 23 games. They have a playoff system in place after the regular season of 30 games. The Top 8 teams qualify and each team's total points to date are then halved. They then play each other once and whoever has the most points at the end of this, (Half Regular Season + Play-off points accumulated) are crowned Champions. If Hapoel Kiryat Shmona FC where to still be on top, I believe their co-efficient would be 4.400, which would be below Rovers.

Lot to play for there but they are in a decent position at the moment. I wonder if there are any similar situations in Leagues we'd normally expect to have Teams with higher co-efficients

[PartySaint]

Cork City were better than pats in Europe but then we imploded thanks to TNB and ARKADA. We will be in Europe soon again and regain our coefficients.

Yeah but that was an old club who aren't around anymore so they will never catch us

[Bawnville Hoop]

It looks very unlikely that Shamrock Rovers will be seeded in the 2nd Qualifying Round of next year's Champions League. They need 17 clubs to have a lower team co-efficient than them (Rovers co-efficient is 4.475) to be pushed into the seeded side of the draw and as things stand, only the following 13 clubs are below them (if league is still in progress I've noted which team in that country has the highest possible team co-efficient):

The opposite in my opinion. First of all, one team in the round will advance to round 3 and a round 1 team replacing (who will be unseeded). That is if someone wins the champions league who have qualified for it anyway in their league..

You also have Ludogorets in Bulgaria level on points, ranked lower than us. (Millionaire pumping money in to them lately)

Irony Kiryat Shmona of Israel are 10 points ahead, ranked lower than us.

Torpedo are closing the gap in Georgia and Quarabag of azerbaijan are 5th, 9 points behind (ranked lower)

If all leagues were to finish today, Rovers will be seeded.

For europa league, here is an updated page (december). You have to adjust your screen resolution as it appears muddled on some monitors..

Europa league round 1 is regionalised as is the 2nd champions league round (one Rovers are in)

Also the format is changing (rumoured). Derry and Pats are in round 1 and only Sligo in round 2. Round 2 is mainly for cup winners.


Nearly all the leagues are in the off season, most won't be back until we are.

[Bawnville Hoop]

If they aren't seeded they could be in trouble, some very good teams start in that round so they will need to be lucky with the draw

Interesting to note that despite Rovers getting to the EL group stages this year we are still the highest ranked Irish club

Ireland's European Club

Even if Rovers are unseeded they could get a team with a coefficient of 10.000+. If we win we take their coefficient in to round 3 therefore being seeded
Works the same in the europa league. Due to the draw taking place in between the 2 legs

[JayC90]

The opposite in my opinion. First of all, one team in the round will advance to round 3 and a round 1 team replacing (who will be unseeded). That is if someone wins the champions league who have qualified for it anyway in their league..

You also have Ludogorets in Bulgaria level on points, ranked lower than us. (Millionaire pumping money in to them lately)

Irony Kiryat Shmona of Israel are 10 points ahead, ranked lower than us.

Torpedo are closing the gap in Georgia and Quarabag of azerbaijan are 5th, 9 points behind (ranked lower)

If all leagues were to finish today, Rovers will be seeded.

For europa league, here is an updated page (december). You have to adjust your screen resolution as it appears muddled on some monitors..

Europa league round 1 is regionalised as is the 2nd champions league round (one Rovers are in)

Also the format is changing (rumoured). Derry and Pats are in round 1 and only Sligo in round 2. Round 2 is mainly for cup winners.


Nearly all the leagues are in the off season, most won't be back until we are.

Well spotted about the Bulgarian league! I had overlooked that and the Israeli league where I'd expected the champions to have a much higher co-efficient than any of our representatives.

I had actually already assumed the winner of the Champions League would qualify from their league again and I included the Maltese and Northern Irish champions in the unseeded side of the Round 2 draw (they will be the ones to move from Round 1 automatically as they occupy 48th and 49th place respectively in the 2012-13 access list) so Rovers will still need 4 more teams with a lower co-efficient than themselves to finish as champions and I still think that is unlikely to happen. I've tried to lay out the leagues which could impact on Rovers' seeding below in a clear manner so it's easier to follow over the course of the season, although as Bawnville Hoop pointed out, most are currently in the off-season and don't return until March. If 4 of the following materialise then they will be seeded:

Israeli Premier League - Need anyone except Hapoel Tel Aviv, Maccabi Haifa, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Bnei Yehuda, or Maccabi Netanya to win.

Bulgarian A League - Need anyone except Levski Sofia, CSKA Sofia, Litex Lovech, Lokomotiv Sofia or Cherno More Varna to win.

Slovak First League - Need anyone except Zilina, Slovan Bratislava or Spartak Trnava to win.

Georgian Premier League - Need anyone except Zestafoni or Dinamo Tblisi to win.

Azerbaijan Premier League - Need anyone except Qarabag Agdam to win.

Hungarian National Championship - Need anyone except Debrecen to win.

Slovenian First League - Need anyone except Maribor to win.

Moldovan National Division - Need anyone except Sheriff to win.

Even if Rovers are unseeded they could get a team with a coefficient of 10.000+. If we win we take their coefficient in to round 3 therefore being seeded
Works the same in the europa league. Due to the draw taking place in between the 2 legs

True, but the whole point of the seeding and co-efficient system is that, in theory, it will be extremely difficult to beat a team of 10.000+ and then take their co-efficient. That was shown last year by the fact that none of the unseeded teams in the 2nd Qualifying Round were able to progress. It's certainly an interesting time ahead for Stephen Kenny who has "been led to believe" Rovers will be seeded according to this interview with Des Cahill. I wonder was he told that before or after he signed his contract.