QuoteWait, has Jesus taken an official line on this? Nothing for 2000 years and now he instructs people to vote in the Scottish Independence referendum. Truly the lord moves in mysterious ways.
Looks very familiar
Wait, has Jesus taken an official line on this? Nothing for 2000 years and now he instructs people to vote in the Scottish Independence referendum. Truly the lord moves in mysterious ways.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
Love the short solitary clap for your man.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
You can't fathom why somebody might be so concerned about economic problems after independence that they'd vote No?Originally Posted by BonnieShels
... Because you first encountered him on this thread in the post only three posts up from your own?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 29/08/2014 at 4:10 AM.
Maintaining the status quo is a safe option for many. Plenty probably think things are just fine as they are and would rather avoid jumping into the relative unknown with all its perceived risks: "Don't fix it if it ain't broke." The independence option is a radical one. Sadly, it's the same reason why a fair number of voters in the north who would otherwise identify as nationalists might vote to remain in the UK if there was ever a referendum on the Irish question.
I'm sure there are also plenty of others in Scotland who primarily identify as British; their cultural identity gravitates towards the notion of Britain as a whole and/or as Scotland being an integral part of that.
Yeah, I'm sure there are some Scots for who the idea of independence is so alluring as to supercede any concerns about other consequence of leaving the union, but I'm sure there are some who don't feel that way.
Ineed, and perhaps some in the south who wouldn't want a United Ireland, for much the same reasons.
I'd guess that these aren't the Scots that BonnieShels is referring to though, but I might be wrong.
Last edited by osarusan; 29/08/2014 at 8:32 AM.
Its incorrect to say that you are culturally 'British'. British is a political term for the people that live in the United Kingdom. You are either culturally English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Manx, Cornish, or an Islander in the UK. So if people in Scotland vote No based on the reason that they feel British, they are completely wrong and do not understand anything about themselves as an identity within a political union.
Britishness is certainly a culture as defined by a large number of people. They might not be wholly representative but there is certainly a British culture that supersedes and is at other times incongruous with the sub-nationalities within it.
And British culture would be the shared culture or combination of sub-cultures of the people of the UK. What you're saying is that you understand their identity better than they do? There's no strict limitation as to what constitutes or defines a culture. The parameters are vague and very much fluid. If someone says they feel culturally British, who is anyone else to tell them they're mistaken?
Apart from the only incidence of it outside Dublin being agriculture, obviously?
Ka-boom and er, tish. I think the Boss is being unnecessarily exclusive there.
In relation to what I said previously said it was more gathered towards how a Scot should not vote. They should only vote No for Social, Political, and Economic reasons rather than nationalism/unionism or culture. Although some will inevitably.
But I still do stand by my comments that there is no identifiable British culture. English culture may have minor influences in Scotland and vice versa, but that does not make it one unique culture. I can accept the term British in relation to the collective (like European, we don't say we are European, we say we are Irish) but not as an individual. British is a nationality not an cultural identity.
Some Scots inevitably will, indeed, because the idea behind the democratic concept is that there is no particular way that one should vote. Scots will vote whatever way they want, for whatever reasons they want. Just because some might vote for cultural reasons, or reasons to which you don't attach any great significance, doesn't mean they're somehow getting it all wrong. That's an inherently undemocratic thing to say.
As far as British culture is concerned, is it really your place to say? You seem to have a very objective, precise and exclusive idea of what constitutes a cultural identity; so limited, in fact, that it implies that those who identify by a British culture are actually misguided as to their own personal and collective/communal identity. You may not acknowledge the existence of such a culture or cultural identity, but that's no more than your subjective perception and perspective.
I think the Scots will vote to remain in the union. They won't be able to blame the English anymore.
Long Live King Kenny
The latest YouGov poll figures, released the other day, had 'yes' at 47% and 'no' at 53%. YouGov has regularly reported lower levels of support for independence than the other polling companies, so it's a big morale boost for the 'yes' campaign. The predicted 'no' vote has been in free-fall, so it'll be very tight with a fortnight still to go.
Just because I may disagree with someone because of the way they may vote, is far from undemocratic. Its called an opinion. They can do what they want, I just dispute it.
Nationalism is one of the most flawed ideologies that any person can have in my opinion. Its all about the 'us' and 'our land', making themselves out to be different for all other groups of people but genetically we are all the same. There is absolutely no difference between peoples from our part of the world, only how we live our lives in a collective isolation. Whether we call ourselves either Irish, British, English, Scottish, Welsh, etc, is irrelevant really, we may be culturally different but that does not mean that we have to be extremely nationalistic about it, or in the case of British, a collective nationalism. Britain has only existed since 1700, so when Ireland was part of the union between 1800-1921, that meant Irish suddenly became British which was only created 100 years previously, and then became Irish again from 1921 onwards?
Look at Arab world, they all share a common identity and culture, can you tell me the difference between an Tunisian and a Moroccan? The land that Arabs live in today is divided up into countries for political reasons. They may say they are proud Algerians but their Arab like their neighbours.
The 'No' campaign has focused far too much on attacking Salmond and attacking the 'Yes' campaign. From talking with people that recently went to Scotland, the impression got was that the 'No' campaign could hardly give a positive reason for staying, all their points were based on the negative, "you can't do this/that" etc. where as the 'Yes' campaign was about optimism and positivity for the future. I think a Yes vote is very likely.
Certainly, diversity in opinion is all good, but the notion that there is a certain way that they should vote, as if you know what's best for them, sounds imperious to me. Democracy upholds diverse opinions as valid, so to suggest certain ones might be invalid or wrong seems to be the antithesis of that.
Ethnicity isn't a concept that is based purely on genetic make-up or the alleged genetic differences between various peoples. The outmoded theory or construct of race has been well and truly debunked and shown to be biologically obsolete - genetic variation can be greater within supposed "races" than between them - but there are, nevertheless, differences between different groups of peoples by virtue of their very existence. From different experiences grow different traditions and cultures. That doesn't necessarily have to be a negative or divisive thing. I'm not necessarily saying that nationalism is the best ideology by which humanity should organise itself or around which it should arrange its societies either, but national cultures can also be progressive, celebratory and bonding in nature. Obviously, ethnic nationalism can often take on a much more nasty face than its civic cousin, but it's no reason to dismiss the entire concept of nation as being completely flawed relative to all other ideologies. It's as much or as little a perception-based human construct as any other human ideology really.Nationalism is one of the most flawed ideologies that any person can have in my opinion. Its all about the 'us' and 'our land', making themselves out to be different for all other groups of people but genetically we are all the same. There is absolutely no difference between peoples from our part of the world, only how we live our lives in a collective isolation. Whether we call ourselves either Irish, British, English, Scottish, Welsh, etc, is irrelevant really, we may be culturally different but that does not mean that we have to be extremely nationalistic about it, or in the case of British, a collective nationalism. Britain has only existed since 1700, so when Ireland was part of the union between 1800-1921, that meant Irish suddenly became British which was only created 100 years previously, and then became Irish again from 1921 onwards?
Look at Arab world, they all share a common identity and culture, can you tell me the difference between an Tunisian and a Moroccan? The land that Arabs live in today is divided up into countries for political reasons. They may say they are proud Algerians but their Arab like their neighbours.
There's an Ulster-Scots community in the Laggan district of east Donegal along the border with Derry. Despite many of those in this community having been born and bred south of the border, they don't culturally identify as Irish. Rather, they culturally identify as British, and that's fair enough. Who's to say their misguided? DUP members, Maurice Devenney, Willie Hay and Basil McCrea are some prominent members from this community. Their British identity has no official recognition (unlike the mirror nationalist community across the border in the north, who were similarly "caught on the wrong side of the border" upon partition, but who do have official recognition of their Irish identity), but I wouldn't feel it was my place to deny this community their wish to culturally identify however they wish. National identity can transcend state borders and boundaries. My own father was born in Tyrone, officially part of the UK, but he has never identified as anything other than Irish. It's the same for the broader nationalist community in the north. Culture and national identity are fluid concepts; there are no hard and fast rules as to what is and isn't a valid cultural identity.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 06/09/2014 at 4:44 PM.
Latest poll gives "Yes" a slight lead: http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0906/641...-independence/
Which is notable since its the first poll since 12 months ago to do so: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion...dum,_2014#2014
Some of the English headlines tomorrow regards Scotland are all sorts of mental. Really going to see things get desperate now, I'm sure David Cameron doesn't want to be the PM that oversaw the dismemberment of the UK.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Seems there are talks of Federalism and Devo-max now on the table this week.
Hopefully the Scots see fit to tell them to f-off at this stage.
The SNP wanted other options on the ballot 2 years ago but they were refused. Hate that!
Incidentally Stephen Harper, the Clown Prince of Calgary and the Prime Minister of Canada has weighed in opposing independence. If I was a No voter that would sway me to yes.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ependence.html
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
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