At the end of the day, it's up to the footballers I suppose. They're well within their right to do what they want to do. NI have just got to keep on keeping on. Produce them; develop them; make them feel wanted; inculcate them. They have a strong set up and record of working with young players up there. If we benefit, hooray for us.
I'm sure they can take players from us also. There were whispers several years ago that a couple of Southern players were thinking of switching but nothing came to fruition.
It might be worth reading through the thread before diving in with both feet.
The English born and bred comments sounds like you're suggested McClean is not Irish born and bred which is hugely insulting to a huge number of Irish people, including a lot of posters on here.
The second one about southern players switching. Again, read the thread, Irish players are not eligible for Northern Ireland unless they are dual nationals and that's too simple an explanation.
The IFA are happy to continue training and selecting such players because they stand to benefit from these players' participation in their teams and may even end up with these players opting to commit to the association down the line as that desired call from the FAI may never emerge for the player. So, it's not a case of "all take" by the players concerned. The IFA benefit from these "transactions" too.
Besides, who's funding the IFA, their coaching and the facilities they use? A significant portion of their funding is public money; a considerable amount of that comes from the nationalist community who support Ireland and who regard players like Duffy and McClean as local/community heroes.
For what it's worth, Kerr also selected northerners Henry McStay and Ger Crossley in his under-age teams. He also had early discussions with Darron Gibson about switching.
He did turn Michael McGovern away, mind, and advised him to stick with the IFA as Shay, Dean Kiely, Wayne Henderson, Brian Murphy and Joe Murphy would all have been ahead of McGovern in the goalkeeping pecking order at the time, according to Kerr.
Originally Posted by Brian Kerr
I respect James McClean's reasons for declaring for us and anyone can see some in NI's camp are wilfully ignorant of them, but he undermines his own cause when he says he used them as a stepping stone in his own career and suggests that he waited until his stock was high to switch to ROI.
I'm not on a wind up. Of course I can see the distinction between someone like McClean and Grealish. It's night and day. I'm simply trying to understand things from their (NI) perspective. It isn't a black and white issue. There are grey areas. That is all.
A person from 26 counties with NI grandparent is eligible for ROI from birth. They can apply for British Citizenship in order to play for NI but it's complicated. They are not automatically dual nationals in respect of FIFA.
Anyway, that wasn't my main issue. I was triggered by the born and bred comment but TOWK has since cleared up that it wasn't his intention to imply McClean wasn't born and bred.
It's a corollary of Unionism and its inherent defensiveness and hypocrisy. And your consistent "let's all get along" approach is profoundly irritating and patronising.
There are 1.8m people living in Fermanagh, Antrim, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh and Down, and only about 900,000 really have any real cultural attachment to the IFA's team. These players that we "poach" generally have little cultural interest in playing for the IFA and should they line out for them like say Niall McGinn did, it has been pragmatic and there's no need to over-egg the decision. The IFA manager doesn't have to pick them if he feels that their commitment isn't 100%.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
The same cultural faults you could level at Northern Irish unionists are ones inherent in us.
Irishness the way someone like James McClean sees it as different to the way someone like Alan Maybury, Richard Sadlier or Brian Kerr would see it.
Alan Maybury has given interviews about the abuse he got for wearing a Rangers tracksuit growing up in Dublin and so did Richard Sadlier. Less than 20 years ago baboons in Lansdowne Road were booing players who played for Rangers. Bill O'Herlihy had to be reprimanded for making embarrassing comments about badminton "being a Protestant sport" to the entire country on our national broadcaster after Chloe Magee won a match several years ago.
The tricolour is green, white and orange for a reason.
The bottom line is McClean and Hale deserve to be left alone after making their reasons for switching vehemently clear, even lads like O'Kane for whom nationalistic background didn't play a part, but again, I can see their (NI)'s perspective.
They're a small nation and they've spent time and resources developing players only to see them switch.
And I'm open to correction, Bonnie, but haven't several players switched back to NI from ROI which would undermine things a little bit from our perspective?
Anyway, I'm glad the Hale's switched and hope they make an impact even marginally close to a Robbie Keane.
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 21/03/2017 at 9:55 AM.
Was Kerrs father of an Orange disposition ?
I lay on my "inherent bigotry" really thickly. It's so bloody obvious for all to see.
What are you on about?Irishness the way someone like James McClean sees it as different to the way someone like Alan Maybury, Richard Sadlier or Brian Kerr would see it.
I have no issue with anyone's expression of their Irishness (no matter how that may be demonstrated) and if you had even the most cursory knowledge of me or my discussions in here you would know not to even attempt to drive down this road.
Supporting Rangers or wearing their gear is nothing to do with cultural expression in this context I would bet... and I hardly think it made much of a difference to him when it came to playing for Ireland. It wasn't like Alan Kernaghan making a decision...Alan Maybury has given interviews about the abuse he got for wearing a Rangers tracksuit growing up in Dublin and so did Richard Sadlier.
I knew a lad in my class like Sadlier who "supported" Rangers. AND tbh he was mostly on a WUM. I grew up despising Celtic for the sectarian crap that followed them around. Does that equate to the same thing?
I honestly can't believe you are equating to Dublin-born Rangers "supporting" guys with anything remotely concerning the IFA attitude and their well trodden issue with Irish-born players wanting to play for their national team, ie the FAI representative team.
So? They also played for the opposition. Those days are so long ago and so unbelievably in the past it's beyond belief you are bringing it up as an example of nationalist attitudes to Unionists/IFA.Less than 20 years ago baboons in Lansdowne Road were booing players who played for Rangers.
Less than 20 years ago Omagh happened? 21 since Manchester? So?
Come off it. Are ya serious? I still refer to garrison games. AS do many others mostly in jest and mostly in recognising the historical nature of sport on this island and how it grew and ebbed and flowed. Badminton and cricket were Protestant sports in my view when I was growing up... didn't stop me playing them mind as a teen and adult. You're a touch sensitive I feel.Bill O'Herlihy had to be reprimanded for making embarrassing comments about badminton "being a Protestant sport" to the entire country on our national broadcaster after Chloe Magee won a match several years ago.
Aye, it is. And?The tricolour is green, white and orange for a reason.
,The bottom line is McClean and Hale deserve to be left alone after making their reasons for switching vehemently clear
They do indeed deserve to be left alone. Who's arguing to the contrary here? The fact is the issues with their choice to play for their team of choice, for whatever reason is not with us on here!
,even lads like O'Kane for whom nationalistic background didn't play a part
But if it did play a part you would have to concede that perhaps it was wrong then? I don't understand your point here.
Your sympathy for the IFA is rather big of you. TBH, I have zero. And I never will.but again, I can see their (NI)'s perspective.
A what now?They're a small nation
My heart is bleeding. Oh poor wee angels of Donegall Avenue.and they've spent time and resources developing players only to see them switch.
You do realise that schoolkids dotted around the Six Counties who may identify with our team might find it difficult to get to play for us at an early age given the logistics of the situation and the fact that we lack jurisdiction for them to train and play with us. I'm sure if we could let them join earlier we would.
Also, playing for NI Schools means nahim!
How does it undermine anything? The FAI have never openly courted players. And always stress that the player makes the first contact given the sensitive nature of the issue at hand.And I'm open to correction, Bonnie, but haven't several players switched back to NI from ROI which would undermine things a little bit from our perspective?
No one in the IFA or OWC etc should ever complain about the situation yet they constantly cry poor mouth.
I don't agree with our approach as I believe our playing pool is small enough without needlessly limiting ourselves. But we are where we are.
Here, here.Anyway, I'm glad the Hale's switched and hope they make an impact even marginally close to a Robbie Keane.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
You show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser - Vince Lombardi
Originally Posted by Dion Fanning
He has connections to Northern Ireland through family.
Responding to the bigotry against Arveladze 14 years ago:
He was open to managing Northern Ireland a few years ago but an offer never materialised.Kerr is doing his best to make sure it doesn’t happen on Tuesday week. "I hope that stuff fades away, I really do. I’d like there to be none of that. It’s something that ****es me off. My father and mother were from Belfast and they would have socialised in a mixed environment."
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 21/03/2017 at 11:26 AM.
In case anyone missed Paddy McEleney's latest wonder-goal against St. Pat's last weekend, here's a video:
Danny won't like Danny for this: F365
On Tuesday morning, TalkSPORT asked famously sensitive cultural expert Danny Mills to pass comment on Wilfried Zaha’s decision to play for Ivory Coast, his country of birth, over England.
Firstly, here is what Zaha said when making his decision:
“It is rewarding first because I am proud to play for my country, then because the Ivoirian selection has quality players and it has always been a pool of talent. I left for England as a child and I did not return. So I did all my classes in my adopted country and it was the most normal thing in the world that I played for the English youth selections. But for the past four years, I have had ample time to analyse the situation and to take into account the offers of the Ivorian federation. So I made the right choice and I do not regret it.”Now to Mills for his typically nuanced take. He knows all about the difficulties and deliberations of Zaha’s decision you see, because he was born in Norwich and played for England:
“Ultimately he’s taken the easier option and thought ‘Well, I might get a few more caps and I might get to play in a few more tournaments because my chances with England are probably going to be limited. I probably done 30-odd squads and never got any game time; sat in the stands, sat on the bench. But you still turned up every single time in the hope that you might get a chance and take it.”
‘Ultimately’, Danny, you haven’t got a clue what Zaha was thinking or his reasons for choosing his country of birth, and thus projecting your opinion onto him is, at best, mildly offensive.