Page 1 of 368 1231151101 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 7341

Thread: Eligibility Rules, Okay

  1. #1
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    13,639
    Thanks
    1,474
    Thanked 2,267 Times in 1,545 Posts

    Eligibility Rules, Okay

    These are the proven interpretation of the FIFA rules of eligibility as they stand now and how they affect us.
    These are proven by FIFA practice, not by speculation of how FIFA might or should interpret their own rules.
    The thread can be searched for at any time and I can also clarify/edit the content in the thread opening post, should it be necessary.

    IOI = Island of Ireland

    BORN IN THE IOI
    Most anyone born on IOI qualifies to play for the FAI.
    One main exception is a NI born player who has already received a senior competitive cap for the IFA.
    An IFA capped player at any other level, can switch to the FAI.
    Precedent is Daniel Kearns.


    DUAL NATIONALS BORN OUTSIDE THE IOI

    Most, if not all, qualify because they have a parent or grandparent born on the island of Ireland, not just born in the 26 counties.
    The precedent is proven for those players with NI born ancestors, as seen in the eligibility of Alex Bruce. Alex has one or both grandparents born in Co Down.
    He was declared eligible for the FAI in 2006 under the eligibility rule, Annex 901, which is exactly the same as current eligibility rule17.


    DUAL NATIONAL ALREADY CAPPED BY ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

    A dual national cannot switch if he has already received a senior competitive international cap.
    He can change only once, if he has not already received a senior competitive international cap

    eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
    At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
    He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
    Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
    Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
    Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
    Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice

    DUAL NATIONAL, NOT ALREADY CAPPED.

    The player has 2 choices until he receives a senior competitive cap.
    Aiden McGeady is tied to the FAI, since he received his first senior competitive cap.

    James McCarthy is not tied to the FAI until he receives his first senior competitive cap.
    Last edited by geysir; 08/02/2011 at 2:04 PM.


  2. #2
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    Ya, the way I see the whole automatic thing and acquired its not how EG and Not Brazil see it. Acquired in the case EG keeps pointing to means residency or whatever other means. Anyone whose Grandparent is born on the Island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship at birth. Therefore its not acquired through any other means/criteria and is a birth right.

    Fair play geysir, I don't really have much interest in the whole arguement Fifa articles but this is good, that recession has given you far more time up there in the cold. I think this should be a sticky.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  3. #3
    Reserves cufc champions's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    396
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 18 Times in 15 Posts
    No provision for Paul Butler

  4. #4
    First Team Not Brazil's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Belfast, Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,414
    Thanks
    244
    Thanked 207 Times in 131 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Ya, the way I see the whole automatic thing and acquired its not how EG and Not Brazil see it. Acquired in the case EG keeps pointing to means residency or whatever other means. Anyone whose Grandparent is born on the Island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship at birth. Therefore its not acquired through any other means/criteria and is a birth right.
    If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html
    The Englishmen came over in the year 2005
    But little did they know that we'd planned a wee surprise
    Sir David scored the winner, and Windsor Park went wild
    And this is what we sang...

  5. #5
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Not Brazil View Post
    If one of your grandparents is an Irish citizen but none of your parents was born in Ireland, you may become an Irish citizen. You will need to have your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register.If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html
    which could be the day you were born(not that it matters) and before you claim any other nationality(even in the country you were born you are still entitled to citizenship, as stated in box A again entitlement doesn't mean you have to take it up), its not the same as acquiring through criteria of residency or such other. Its the same box A(a person born on the Island of Ireland) in that pdf is "entitled to irish citizenship".
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  6. #6
    Seasoned Pro shakermaker1982's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    4,142
    Thanks
    140
    Thanked 232 Times in 148 Posts
    This is gonna be fun!!!
    "If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.

    You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!

  7. #7
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    13,639
    Thanks
    1,474
    Thanked 2,267 Times in 1,545 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by cufc champions View Post
    No provision for Paul Butler
    Of course there is, getting trapped by an Irish woman didn't qualify Paul for the FAI.
    Paul Butler might have qualified for Irish nationality based on his marriage to an Irish girl (I´m not sure) but his step-father's father was Irish.
    It was the latter that allowed him to declare for the FAI.
    Paul's cause
    `My step-father's father, Seamus, was born in Dublin and it's through him that I've qualified to play for Ireland,'' he explained.
    Last edited by geysir; 08/02/2011 at 2:01 PM.

  8. #8
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    13,639
    Thanks
    1,474
    Thanked 2,267 Times in 1,545 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    that recession has given you far more time up there in the cold. I think this should be a sticky.
    Any ideas for a good pyramid scheme would be welcome.

  9. #9
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Guys (subtle but you should get it)
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  10. #10
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    6,380
    Thanks
    999
    Thanked 1,298 Times in 687 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    which could be the day you were born(not that it matters) and before you claim any other nationality(even in the country you were born you are still entitled to citizenship, as stated in box A again entitlement doesn't mean you have to take it up), its not the same as acquiring through criteria of residency or such other. Its the same box A(a person born on the Island of Ireland) in that pdf is "entitled to irish citizenship".
    We're talking about citizenship now, rather than eligibility, but we need to clarify things, Paul. First of all, it's impossible to register a foreign birth on the actual birth date - these things need documentation and have to applied for and certified.



    My family's case is an example of this.

    I'm an Irish citizen - Category A.

    My daughter, born in Japan, is an Irish citizen by birthright (as in, a right granted by virtue of her birth), category C.

    My son, born in Limerick last month, is an Irish citizen, category B.

    If my son has a child outside Ireland, that child will be an Irish citizen (category C) from the moment of their birth. But, if my daughter has a child outside Ireland (whose father is not an Irish citizen category A or B), that child will not be an Irish citizen from the instant of their birth, but only if and when their birth is registered with the foreign births register.
    Last edited by osarusan; 08/02/2011 at 2:46 PM. Reason: Irish, not Irich

  11. Thanks From:


  12. #11
    Reserves Yard of Pace's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    957
    Thanks
    162
    Thanked 260 Times in 152 Posts
    Cracking thread title, by the way

  13. #12
    Seasoned Pro ifk101's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Posts
    3,185
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 320 Times in 192 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    DUAL NATIONAL ALREADY CAPPED BY ANOTHER ASSOCIATION.

    A dual national cannot switch if he has already received a senior competitive international cap.
    He can change only once, if he has not already received a senior competitive international cap

    eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
    At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
    He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
    Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
    Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
    Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
    Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice
    My understanding is that Clark is tied to us regardless if he plays a senior international or not. Once a player files and acknowledges a change of association it is irreversible. See the below extract from the Daniel Kearns' ruling.

    II. BACKGROUND FACTS
    II.1 Mr Kearns’ Request for a Change of Association
    5. Mr Kearns was born on 26 August 1991 in Antrim, Northern Ireland. His parents
    were also born in Northern Ireland and held passports of the Republic of Ireland at
    the time of his birth.
    6. It is undisputed that Mr Kearns has had dual British and Irish citizenship from
    birth.
    7. Mr Kearns was selected in several international matches for the U-15 and U-16
    schoolboy teams of Northern Ireland as well as for the Northern Ireland U-17 and
    U-19 teams. However, he has never played a match in an official competition at
    “A” international level for the IFA.
    8. On 11 August 2009, Mr Kearns filed an application before FIFA for a change of
    association team, from the IFA to the FAI. On 2 November 2009, he confirmed to
    FIFA his request, acknowledging the fact that such a change would be
    irreversible.

    9. On 3 November 2009 and in compliance with the applicable FIFA regulations, the
    FAI submitted a formal request to FIFA for Mr Kearns’ change of association team.
    It fulfilled all the administrative requirements at the latest by 21 December
    2009.

  14. Thanks From:


  15. #13
    First Team boovidge's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,212
    Thanks
    74
    Thanked 153 Times in 77 Posts
    I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .

  16. Thanks From:


  17. #14
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    6,380
    Thanks
    999
    Thanked 1,298 Times in 687 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    @IFK - As I understand it, the 'approval' for a change of association is actually an international cap (even a friendly). As in, a player hasn't actually changed associations until he has been capped by the representative team of his new association.

    Not sure about it though.

  18. #15
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    If my son has a child outside Ireland, that child will be an Irish citizen (category C) from the moment of their birth. But, if my daughter has a child outside Ireland (whose father is not an Irish citizen category A or B), that child will not be an Irish citizen from the instant of its birth, but only if and when their birth is registered with the foreign births register.

    Is that not what I said though? Its an entitlement to citizenship, just as, as you read box A of that pdf, being born in Ireland is an entitlement.

    Entitled meaning in this case, proof of ancestary. Its not acquired through criteria of residency or any such other.
    I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .
    Exactly, osarusan missed that point I think. He was getting technical on the dates. Its an entitlement from birth same as Box A.


    If you are: Then you are:
    A Born in the island of Ireland on or before 31 December 2004 Entitled to Irish citizenship or you are an Irish citizen
    B Born on the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 Entitled to Irish citizenship if your parents are Irish. Entitled to Irish citizenship, if your parents are foreign nationals legally resident in the island of Ireland for 3 out of 4 years immediately prior to your birth.
    C Child of A, born outside the island of Ireland An Irish citizen
    D Child of C and a grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, but you must first register in the Foreign Births Register
    E a child of D and a great-grandchild of A, born outside the island of Ireland Entitled to Irish citizenship, by having your birth registered in the Foreign Births Register, but only if your parent D had registered by the time of your birth.
    Last edited by paul_oshea; 08/02/2011 at 2:27 PM.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  19. #16
    First Team Predator's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,491
    Thanks
    689
    Thanked 308 Times in 186 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    eg. Ciaran Clark has been capped at youth level for the FA. He applied to switch to the FAI and that has been approved by FIFA.
    At the moment, he is selected to play in a senior friendly, but not yet capped at the time of writing.
    He is regarded as 'switched to the FAI' when he has received a cap.
    Until he is capped, he is still at liberty to revert back to to the FA.
    Clark can be named in the FAI squad, but if he is not capped, then FIFA do not regard that he has used his 2nd choice.
    Should Clark change his mind before the game tonight, he can still choose to revert to England.
    Once Clark receives a cap - even a friendly cap - he is regarded as using up his 2nd choice
    Can you clarify this one for me geysir? I was under the impression that once a player applied FIFA to change association, and the eligibility etc. was reviewed and approved, that was considered to be an official change of association.

    EDIT: ifk has made the same point.

  20. #17
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    6,380
    Thanks
    999
    Thanked 1,298 Times in 687 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by boovidge View Post
    I think the point is that it's an entitlement from birth, regardless of when the paperwork's done. .
    But actually it matters quite a lot when the paperwork's done, because:

    If you are entitled to register, your Irish citizenship is effective from the date of registration. The Irish citizenship of successive generations may be maintained in this way by each generation ensuring their registration in the Foreign Births Register before the birth of the next generation.

    Since 1 July 1986, a person registered in the Foreign Births Entry Book after 1986 is deemed to be an Irish citizen only from the date of his/her entry in the Register and not from the date of birth. This means that children born to that person before his/her date of entry in the Register are not entitled to citizenship.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html

  21. #18
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    But actually it matters quite a lot when the paperwork's done, because:



    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en...r_descent.html
    Just cos you didnt get your Thanks to stick

    Its not really though to the discussion I was having previouslly on Celtic cup thread which is what I was referring to. I think you are just getting technical, now desist and apologise saying I was wrong

    EG will be here in no time, like a rat up a pipe, he has probably smelt it already No offence EG
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

  22. #19
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    6,380
    Thanks
    999
    Thanked 1,298 Times in 687 Posts
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    now desist and apologise saying I was wrong
    My post has been judiciously edited.

  23. Thanks From:


  24. #20
    Capped Player
    Joined
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Maígh Eó
    Posts
    14,397
    Thanks
    1,720
    Thanked 781 Times in 621 Posts
    You get your thanks back.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

Page 1 of 368 1231151101 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Eligibility Rules, Okay
    By TheOneWhoKnocks in forum Rubbish
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03/02/2017, 11:17 AM
  2. Eligibility Rules, Okay
    By geysir in forum Rubbish
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12/11/2013, 9:47 AM
  3. Problem - eligibility
    By SkStu in forum Support
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 25/05/2011, 8:14 AM
  4. Player eligibility row
    By an_ceannaire in forum Ireland
    Replies: 1883
    Last Post: 09/02/2011, 12:07 PM
  5. Eligibility Rules
    By Stuttgart88 in forum Ireland
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10/11/2004, 5:40 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •