Eligibility Rules, Okay

[Gather round]

(not sure if Aberdeen had/have any other NI players)

Ryan McLoughlin had an unsucccessful loan spell at Aberdeen before signing for Oldham.

[DannyInvincible]

Although I do hit that end of town occasionally it's usually for hospital visits so haven't managed dinner.

My sister bought a new house in Belfast recently, so I'll be up visiting the city a lot more frequently now. Must give it a try when I'm up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

McGinn seemed to positively identify as Northern Irish? Hmm... Where, when and what exactly did he say?

He declares unambiguously that he's an Ireland fan here (at 1m12s):



And he was also quoted extensively in a 2010 study by Darragh McGee and Alan Bairner entitled Transcending the borders of Irish identity? Narratives of northern nationalist footballers in Northern Ireland. In that, he admitted that playing for Ireland would have been his preference (reading between the lines), spoke of his reasons for choosing to play for NI and talked up the idea of career pragmatism whilst downplaying any real national identification with his present international team. I'm sure he has developed bonds within and fondness for the NI team since declaring for them, but he has hardly shed his national identity all of a sudden.



Hayes' trip to follow NI games was discussed before. Wasn't he (very much a peripheral squad-player for us anyway) heading over to follow his team-mate(s?) - presumably McGinn was one of them (not sure if Aberdeen had/have any other NI players?) - and he'd had it all booked before even seriously contemplating that we might actually qualify too? NI had already qualified for the Euros in early October of 2015 after beating Greece at Windsor Park. That was the same night we beat Germany, but that only guaranteed us a tough play-off to negotiate.

I don't think you could really suggest that Hayes identifies more with NI or that he doesn't care about his own country's fortunes, if that's the way you're trying to spin it?

I'm no more implying that Hayes is a NI fan than you are implying everyone who goes to ROI matches with their mates are ROI fans.

Google Niall McGinn reveals all.

It's strange how you ignore your own concept of shared cultural identity when it comes to your endless babbling about Northern Irish related matters.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Not good enough Danny, he doesn't care which intl team calls him up.
He doesn't even tickle the gut test. “I’m not switching because it’s the Republic of Ireland, I’m switching because I haven’t been called up (for Northern Ireland) in two years and I want to play international football.”

If he has not played in a competitive u19 game for NI then he's not on the uefa radar and he doesn't have to switch in order to play for us.

Eunan O'Kane switched for footballing reasons too IIRC.

McClean said he switched for purely footballing reasons, however true that is.

[DannyInvincible]

Isn't this a departure from what we've previously seen reported and against the gentlemans agreement the FAI said they were adhereing to? i.e they wouldn't make first contact with a player to initiate a switch?

Noel King seems to be a fan of a more assertive and proactive policy (rather than sitting back and waiting), which I don't think there's anything remotely wrong with in principle; good on him, if that's his approach.

I guess the only problem with that, however, would be that his boss, John Delaney, does repeatedly say when questioned on the matter of eligiblity that the FAI don't initiate contact (presumably out of a concern for what you might call neighbourliness and because he knows it might irritate the IFA, even though it is entirely our right).

It seems there was some sort of informal agreement in 1999 where Jim Boyce (then of the IFA) acknowledged the eligibility of northern-born Irish nationals to play for Ireland in a meeting with Bernard O’Byrne of the FAI. Reading between the lines, it seems the FAI may have suggested or agreed that they wouldn't make first contact with a northern-born player but that if such a player approached them, then there was little they could do. Of that meeting, Boyce stated:

The issue of Northern Ireland’s eligible players opting to play for the Republic was discussed at length with the FAI. It was also stressed that if a player made an approach himself, there was little the FAI could do unless FIFA was to change legislation. That, we accept. But at least we have agreed to notify one another should this happen.

Regardless, I'm not sure anyone could credibly claim that such an agreement would still stand in light of the IFA's attempt to breach it wholesale by dragging Daniel Kearns to CAS a few years ago in order to have the court invalidate Kearns' eligibility and, by extension, the eligibility of all northern-born Irish nationals to play for Ireland. During the case, of course, the IFA even tried to argue that a gentleman's agreement had existed since the 1950s which allegedly rendered northern-born Irish nationals altogether ineligible to play for the FAI, but CAS completely dismissed any notion of that.

Also, you wouldn't know from what Daniels says there how exactly the call-up to our under-21s came about. For all we know, someone at Derry might have mentioned something casually about Daniels' ability and willingness to play international football to someone in the FAI (maybe even adding something about his frustration with being ignored by the IFA), seeing as they'd be in daily/weekly contact, and someone at the FAI - maybe King himself - might have, based on that, made the call that Daniels refers to. That's pure conjecture, but the reality isn't always as black and white as critics of FAI policy try to make out.

[DannyInvincible]

Google Niall McGinn reveals all.

I've done that. You referring to this?: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/spo...st-team-mates/

I've had a very quick skim through that, but I can't see what you're referring to. I don't really have the time to wade through articles and interviews for you. You made the claim; as is convention in debates, discussions and forums, now it's up to you to back it up. The burden of proof rests with you.

It's strange how you ignore your own concept of shared cultural identity when it comes to your endless babbling about Northern Irish related matters.

I haven't ignored the possibility of ambiguity or duality in respect of McGinn's national/cultural identity. How did/do I ignore it? I just amn't convinced it is relevant or applies in the same sense when it comes to McGinn as compared to, say, some second or third generation Irish born in England. The social context is completely different. Maybe McGinn does nationally or positively identify as Northern Irish too; I've just not seen much evidence of it. In fact, I've seen and produced evidence which suggests his connection with the NI team isn't nationality-based and that he's keen to stress he hasn't jumped into it gung-ho and embraced all that comes with it in terms of identity. He's evidently reluctant to embrace the whole package and is sensitive to how his lining out for NI might be perceived or misinterpreted by his own community. His decision to play for NI was a sporting career decision.

There's a very different social dynamic at play when it comes to identity in the bi-communal north of Ireland (as a crude general historical "rule", it has been a case of people strictly or "mutually exclusively" regarding themselves as being "one or the other" nationally/communally, although more exceptions to this "binary" are emerging and personal identities in the north are undoubtedly complex nevertheless) than from the dynamic at play when it comes to second or third generation Irish who were born in England embracing their Irishness (perhaps to complement their simultaneously-felt Englishness), which (besides the pejorative "plastic Paddy" slur some may experience, often actually from Irish people who were born in Ireland) has no otherwise significant stigma of which I know attached to it within their home communities in England, where they'll have been born and raised.

The likes of Christie, McGoldrick and Arter all proudly stand for the tricolour and 'Amhrán na bhFiann', for example, or sing along in the case of Westwood. They don't harbour any fear or worry that they might be perceived to be betraying or abandoning their friends and home community in England. That isn't so for McGinn when he lines out for NI, and, unlike McGinn, none of them, as far as I know, have felt or feel a need to go back and explain their decision to play for Ireland to the community in which they were raised or feel a need to reassure "the boys" at home of their reasons, lest their friends or community might regard them as disowning them or turning their backs on them or their home culture in some way.

Such a stigma (to be seen to be "selling out" one's community by identifying or sympathising with the "other side", or, from the unionist/loyalist perspective, to have done something deemed communally-treacherous so as to render one a "Lundy", in their eyes) does exist in the north of Ireland, however. Of course, it can exist to varying degrees of mildness or severity, but McGinn speaks of it in the quoted bits above - he details how his concern or cultural anxiety compels him to reassure "the boys" at home - whilst it also explains the following comment (in relation to bowing his head during 'God Save the Queen' before NI games) from the same research:

Just put your head down and try to get through it…. Just keep it down. I mean you have boys like Michael O’Connor and Sammy Clingan who are Catholic boys from Belfast and they just keep their heads really low so as not to make a scene but also to show that as Catholics they must be respected.

From what he himself has said publicly about supporting Ireland or why he chose to play for NI and from what I know of him and his background - being somewhat familiar with it in a general sense, given my Da is from a similar rural Tyrone GAA-devoted nationalist background (but, of course, without wanting to conflate my Da's identity with McGinn's or transplant the former on to the latter, as I appreciate identity is a complex matter and we can't just make blind assumptions) - I think we can come to an educated conclusion based on the evidence available. It's clear McGinn chose to play for NI for pragmatic career reasons and doesn't want his choice to be mistaken for a national or cultural affiliation with the unionist or British trappings of the NI team's broader cultural identity.

So, forgive me for being somewhat suspicious of the veracity of what you say. You're notoriously unreliable besides. If you're going to claim "he seemed to positively identify as NI", I'll need to see evidence of what you're referring to so I can form my own judgment on his words.

[Closed Account]

Noel King seems to be a fan of a more assertive and proactive policy (rather than sitting back and waiting), which I don't think there's anything remotely wrong with in principle; good on him, if that's his approach.

As you say, we can't be certain how it came about from one quote, but, personally I don't think we should be approaching lads who have played competitively for Northern Ireland at U17/U19 or U21 level. I'd have no problem approaching them if they haven't played competitively as they would still be entitled to switch back should they play for us.

[Charlie Darwin]

As you say, we can't be certain how it came about from one quote, but, personally I don't think we should be approaching lads who have played competitively for Northern Ireland at U17/U19 or U21 level. I'd have no problem approaching them if they haven't played competitively as they would still be entitled to switch back should they play for us.

Why not? They approach ROI internationals regularly.

[DannyInvincible]

As you say, we can't be certain how it came about from one quote, but, personally I don't think we should be approaching lads who have played competitively for Northern Ireland at U17/U19 or U21 level.

Would you apply the same rule to under-age internationals who've played competitively for, say, England? Ciaran Clark, for example?

I'd have no problem approaching them if they haven't played competitively as they would still be entitled to switch back should they play for us.

They're as eligible to play for us as they are for them. Maybe you view it differently, but I don't see why either/any association should have some sort of original or permanent claim to any player (until that player is cap-tied in accordance with the regulations obviously). It's the player's choice ultimately and we're fully entitled, legally and morally, to make him aware of his options, whatever his circumstances may be, so long as he's not cap-tied elsewhere and so long as he's an eligible Irish national. In my opinion.

[Closed Account]

Would you apply the same rule to under-age internationals who've played competitively for, say, England? Ciaran Clark, for example?

Of course. Obviously there's no black and white way to go about it, but approaching a player who plays for another team, be it club, amateur or international is tapping up in my opinion. Just a personal thing.
I get annoyed when local clubs to it to underage players I'd coach. Sometimes the managers have called me first, which was a nice touch. Obviously nothing illegal about it, I just think there's a right way
and a wrong way to go about things. In Clarks case, and it could well be the same with Daniels, Richie Dunne contacted the FAI, obviously with Clarks knowledge. That's enough for me.

[geysir]

True, although I'm not sure if his appearance(s) for the IFA was/were competitive.

According to uefa.com the source of all underage players info, Josh Daniels was never capped at competitive level but Josh Tracey was, so he would have to make a final switch if he was deemed good enough for us.

By the way, Josh Daniels was the player who lost his mother, his younger sister, a brother-in-law and two nephews in the Buncrana pier tragedy last March, so fair play to him on being able to keep ploughing on: http://www.derryjournal.com/news/bun...iels-1-7288490

To lose half your family in a single incident like that is unimaginably devastating and it shows great resolve to come through it.

Agreed

[geysir]

Of course. Obviously there's no black and white way to go about it, but approaching a player who plays for another team, be it club, amateur or international is tapping up in my opinion. Just a personal thing.

Josh was not called up for NI's u21 squad, he was a "free agent". The IFA evidently don't give a fiddlers about Josh.

I get annoyed when local clubs to it to underage players I'd coach. Sometimes the managers have called me first, which was a nice touch. Obviously nothing illegal about it, I just think there's a right way
and a wrong way to go about things. In Clark's case, and it could well be the same with Daniels, Richie Dunne contacted the FAI, obviously with Clarks knowledge. That's enough for me.

The FA were not informed of the luring of Clark by the FAI, why would R.Dunne contacting the FAI with Clark's knowledge, absolve the FAI of the henious crime of tapping up?

That's the spirit of the eligibility rules, it's a free choice, the rules are balanced towards a player choosing. The FAI could tell the FA they are inviting C Clark, but you can imagine the FA suddenly feeling a lot of love for Ciaran Clark in the off chance that that early promise Clark showed would develop further.
That's the reason the regulations around switching were eased somewhat, so dual eligible players that were capped in the hundreds at underage level and senior friendly, like England were prone to do, were not exploited and left to rot in the ignored pile in later years.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean said he switched for purely footballing reasons, however true that is.

Where and when did he say that? Honestly, where do you get this stuff? Do you just make it up?...

McClean obviously switched for reasons relating to cultural comfort and national identity. He has never been shy to emphasise that he never identified culturally or nationally with NI and he has always been very forthright about his Irish national identity (see, for example, when he corrected Colin Murray after Murray erroneously referred to him as "Northern Irish") and where his national allegiance lies. He said, "My dream has always been to play for the Republic of Ireland", when he first opted to switch and later spoke of his cultural discomfort when lining out for NI:

I think any Catholic would be lying if they said they did feel at home, seeing all those flags (Union Jacks) and hearing the songs and chants. For me, I didn't feel a part of it (when he played for Northern Ireland at underage level).

It's probably the wrong thing to say, but it was just a stepping stone in my career. When I signed for Sunderland, my dream of playing for Ireland became realistic.

Here are some further quotes and snippets from different articles in which he has expressly indicated that he wanted to play for Ireland because he has always nationally identified with the team...

In response to criticism from Keith Gillespie due to the decision to switch association:

I’m Irish and I’ve always been Irish and I’ve always supported the Republic of Ireland. I’ve always wanted to play for the Republic of Ireland and I couldn’t be more proud that I am doing that. Just because I’ve grown up in Northern Ireland doesn’t change that.

When asked on Twitter if he regretted "defecting" from the IFA to the FAI:

[I] am sorry for defecting on my country..republic that is wen i played with the north at underage so yes am sorry for defecting MATE.

From an interview with Vincent Hogan:

Before McClean was parachuted into Giovanni Trapattoni's squad for Euro 2012, he'd rejected an approach from the then Northern Ireland manager, Nigel Worthington. It was, he says, an approach he would never seriously consider.

As a child of the Creggan, one of his favourite memories was of the Republic playing in the 2002 World Cup, "getting days off school and the whole place coming to a standstill".

"When I got that call to play for Northern Ireland, I was never going to accept it," McClean reflects. "Northern Ireland is not my country. Unless you're from where I'm from, Creggan - which was a big part of The Troubles when I was growing up - unless you're from there, you don't really understand."

So, the shirt, the anthem, the over-riding sense of playing for his own people now mean a great deal to him.

He has come through the storm of, essentially, growing up in public, surviving the vitriol of the ill-informed, learning the eloquence of restraint.

"I truly believe that being Irish is the best thing in the world," he smiles now. And James McClean looks truly happy.

Nowhere has he claimed he switched for "purely footballing reasons". You've ether imagined that or you've just made it up. I actually don't know how you could even think that unless you've been sleeping under a rock for the past half a decade. McClean is the most vocal and ardent republican of all the northern-born players to have switched! You truly baffle me.

Either way, the moral of the story is the same as ever; stop being so careless with the facts.

[Stuttgart88]

They're alternative facts.

[geysir]

Besart Berisha a noble deserter, has been given permission by Fifa to switch from Albania to Kosovo.

Kosovo were admitted into Uefa in May 2016, just a guess but I'd say they have a year where they can lure Kosovans previously capped by other countries at competitive level.

[DannyInvincible]

Is Michael O'Neill Nigel Worthington in disguise?: http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/sport/f...neill-12729068

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill has slammed the Football Association of Ireland as "morally poor" as the row over 'poaching' of players goes on.

O'Neill was left furious after Aaron McEneff, who has played for Northern Ireland under-21s throughout their current campaign, was encouraged to switch allegiances to the Republic of Ireland.

"We know we will face a challenge on young players," O'Neill told Sunday Life.

"We know conversations happen between the Republic of Ireland and our young players but I thought it was terrible to approach a player [McEneff] with two games of our Under-21 Euro campaign to go.

"I thought it was morally poor for the Republic of Ireland to do that, to ask a young player to make that decision and I made that clear to Noel King [ROI under-21 manager] at the time."

McEneff is the latest in a long line of players who have turned out for Northern Ireland at under-age level only to later switch to the Republic.

His brother Jordan is a promising talent in the Arsenal youth team – and followed a similar path.

O'Neill said: "With Jordan McEneff I feel for our coaching staff who had worked with the boy for three tears in Club NI.

"He captained our Under-16 Victory Shield side and after that he opted out. There was nothing we could do.

"I do think the situation where we have young players being approached at such a young age, say at 17, 19 and Under-21 level, needs to change until they are a bit older.

"At a young age there's an emotional tie and kids react to things. I hear at times about how it's always been a young player's dream to play for the Republic.

"I heard about the Hale brothers – Aston Villa's Rory and Birmingham City's Ronan – who made the switch. Well then, why did they play for Northern Ireland to begin with?

"If you're going to follow your dream, follow it. But I think it leaves us in a particular situation. The purpose of Club NI is to develop the players but also to build that link with them.

"We are trying to give the kids as much as we can with the resources available."

He added: "There are examples of players switching and they don't play any games for the Republic. It would be great if they [the FAI] looked at it and said, 'do we genuinely think he is going to be a senior player for us or are we just taking him for the sake of it?'."

I'm not sure of the exact details or nature of McEneff's request or switch myself, but Michael O'Neill claims Aaron McEneff was "approached" by the FAI when NI's under-21s (for whom McEneff had already played in Euro qualifiers) had two games to go in their Euro qualifying campaign, but FIFA rules state (in article 8.1(b) on page 71 of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes) that if a player is to switch association, "[h]e is not permitted to play for his new association in any competition in which he has already played for his previous association", so McEneff would not have been much use to Noel King anyway, as far as selecting him for under-21 competition was concerned. Something doesn't quite add up there...

An Irish Mirror piece from the 24th of February also states the following:

It was last August when reports surfaced that Aaron McEneff was set to follow in the footsteps of James McClean, Shane Duffy and Marc Wilson, among others, in switching allegiance from Northern Ireland to the Republic.

The former Tottenham starlet was reportedly awaiting the paperwork to complete the switch.

Since then the story has gone quiet and it's not one that McEneff wants to get into now.

But it's suffice to say that the situation has been parked for the time being.

McEneff is now ineligible to play for Noel King's under-21s and so unless a senior call-up is in the offing, he wants to concentrate on playing for Derry City now after an important season from a personal viewpoint last year.

I'm not sure what McEneff's situation is now exactly then and whether or not FIFA have formally approved a request to switch (assuming he lodged one with them). Anyone else having any further info or insight?

Regardless, it'd be interesting to know how exactly McEneff was "approached", as O'Neill claims. John Delaney has denied "overtly trying to persuade players to play for [Ireland]" and has stated that "if a player makes it known to [the FAI] that he wants to play for the Republic, then [the FAI will] look at him, but [the FAI are] certainly not on a recruitment campaign". He also added: "I think it's up to the player. The player decides that he wants to play for the Republic or the IFA. Then, it's a matter for the association to get involved but only at that stage. I don't think any player should be pressurised into playing for either country or whoever it is. This applies across Europe for different countries as well. It's up to the player."

Of course, McEneff plays for Derry City, who play in the LOI, which is run by the FAI, so it'd be odd if there weren't at least informal channels, connections, contacts and daily/weekly communications between players, coaches, club officials and FAI personnel on account of Derry playing within the FAI's structures. Something may emerge from a bit of casual chit-chat after an idea is aired by one party or another or a suggestion for consideration becomes more concrete and this may then be framed as "an FAI approach". You can easily see how something like that could happen but it's then made out to be indicative of some "sinister FAI policy" to snatch "vulnerable youths" away from their "rightful owners".

Irrespective of all that though, the likes of McEneff are fully eligible players and are fully entitled to have the option of representing Ireland made clear to them so they can make their own decision then. Whilst I find Delaney's words interesting in light of O'Neill's claims (combined with previous accusations by NI fans), I would have no qualms personally with a more forward and forthright approach to the recruitment of eligible players who may be able to offer something.

The IFA have been happy to employ an aggressive recruitment policy themselves besides; see the employment of Gerry Armstrong as "Elite Player Mentor", for example. In 2011, the IFA deployed him on a scaremongering campaign to Derry, where he spoke to 16/17-year-olds in St. Columb's College (PDF link) and St. Brigid's College, as well as kids at Ebrington Primary School. Armstrong is no longer employed in such a role - he stepped down after O'Neill was appointed as O'Neill took over recruitment duties directly himself - but why should we be imposing detrimental restrictions upon ourselves? And is O'Neill seriously trying to make out that he doesn't or wouldn't discuss future international hopes/intentions with players under the age of 21 "until they are a bit older"? Gimme a break! All associations are in the business of recruiting the best players entitled and available to play for them.

If O'Neill feels there's some "immorality" in the application of FIFA's rules, he should make his case to FIFA. Or he could just have a read of the Kearns judgment, not waste his time further and get on with his own job rather than moaning about other associations selecting players who are fully eligible for them. The FAI are operating within the rules and are simply trying to build the strongest squads possible for our various teams, as is their right.

O'Neill is guilty of hypocrisy anyway. The IFA have also attempted to recruit player's who have represented other associations (including the FAI) and O'Neill once spoke of personally trying to convince Sean Scannell to switch to the IFA in November of 2012 (four months after Scannell, who was in our senior squad in 2008, last played for our under-21s).

Thanks to Mr. Parker (IIRC, although I can't find the specific post now; maybe someone else can remember where it was?), we also know that IFA coaches have told young players who have made their ultimate ambitions expressly known to IFA personnel - that being to play for Ireland some day - to accept IFA call-ups in the meantime as this is beneficial for the IFA who will gain something of material value from such players' participation in IFA teams and may even secure a player long-term if he never makes that potential dream switch to the FAI, so let's not let the IFA paint themselves as "unwitting victims". They know the game they're in and they're happy to play it too.

As an aside, Jordan McEneff (Aaron's brother) is also mentioned in the Belfast Live piece. There was uncertainty in the "Potentially eligible players" thread a while back over whether or not he was definitely at Arsenal now, but the article appears to confirm that he is.

[DannyInvincible]

John Fallon's take on Michael O'Neill's latest complaints featured an additional paragraph or two mentioning Martin O'Neill: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-35522480.html

Michael O'Neill has slammed the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) by describing their latest pursuit of players who have represented Northern Ireland at youth level as "terrible".

In a stinging statement, he has claimed that some players who have switched allegiance from Northern Ireland to the Republic regret their decisions and questioned whether the FAI recruit from the North "just for the sake of it".

Gifted Arsenal teenager Jordan McEneff, who scored the winner on his U-16 debut for Ireland two weeks ago, and Derry City's Josh Daniels are the latest to exercise their right to switch under FIFA's eligibility rules. But what angered O'Neill most was Jordan's older brother, Derry City's Aaron McEneff, opting to change allegiance during an U-21 campaign last year.

For the FAI's part, they have continuously denied approaching players from the North, emphasising the first contact comes from prospects interested in representing the Republic of Ireland.

...

As FIFA rules only allow a player to switch once, O'Neill wants the FAI to stop enlisting players until senior level.

He added: "There are examples of players switching over the years and then they don't play any games for the Republic. It would be good if they (FAI) looked at it and said: 'do we genuinely think he is going to be a senior international player for us or are we just taking him for the sake of it?'

"I think it's something which is an FAI policy and not necessarily anything to do with the manager," he insisted.

"I don't think Martin O'Neill is approaching players. The target age (for the FAI) is younger boys between the ages of 16 until 21."

And here was Michael O'Neill being a total hypocrite just earlier this week: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-35508123.html

International football is a very different challenge; you have to maximise the resources you have and you might not have players available.

[liamoo11]

Michael o Neill is so wrong in this. 2 brothers want to play for their country end of.

[Olé Olé]

Michael o Neill is so wrong in this. 2 brothers want to play for their country end of.

Agreed. Even if Aaron has switched but isn't eligible for our under-21's, maybe it's the case that he'd rather not be playing for NI under-21's and strive towards making our senior side. It's a long way off at the moment but he's got serious potential and I'm sure (European exploits ignored) the way Daryl Horgan has adapted to the Championship won't go unnoticed by him, particularly given his comparative youth.

As an aside, Shane McEleney switched to the North some years back. Given how he's started this season and his undoubted talent, I'd be interested to confirm that Patrick didn't make the same switch. O'Neill refers to instances whereby boys from the North switch to us and don't earn a senior cap. What of Shane McEleney? How has his NI career taken off? Exactly.

Whatever about when Worthington used to spout this sort of stuff, you would think that Michael O'Neill would have a different perspective. Okay, the point in relation to young lads playing for NI and then switching to us is acceptable enough, it ignores other facts. The rest is just bitter.

[DannyInvincible]

As an aside, Shane McEleney switched to the North some years back. Given how he's started this season and his undoubted talent, I'd be interested to confirm that Patrick didn't make the same switch.

Paddy has not switched and remains eligible for selection by the FAI.

This is also confirmed in his player profile on UEFA's website. UEFA had Ireland recorded as his country whilst he was playing for Dundalk in the Europa League: http://www.uefa.com/teamsandplayers/...ile/index.html

He looks like he'll be a key player for Dundalk this season and has started the season well. Still only 24, I can definitely see him winning senior international caps in the future.

O'Neill refers to instances whereby boys from the North switch to us and don't earn a senior cap. What of Shane McEleney? How has his NI career taken off? Exactly.

Or what of Alex Bruce?