QuoteOops. If I were really clutching I'd say my comment was informed by the fact that he is English-born but it wasn't informed by that.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Curtis isn't from Derry. he's from Donegal.
Oops. If I were really clutching I'd say my comment was informed by the fact that he is English-born but it wasn't informed by that.
English born, English father, Irish mother. Lives in St Johnston just inside the border of Donegal. One of the stranger families I've ever come across.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
I understand he is eligible for NI as well as ourselves (and England obviously), but not sure how exactly. Maybe it's through a grandparent that he's eligible for NI. Any idea?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 02/09/2017 at 1:20 AM.
Probably from that FIFA compromise rule where players born on the island of Ireland are eligible for both associations - oh wait, the IFA refused that!
Not sure on that one. Doesn't make sense to me. To the best of my knowledge, the Curtis lads went to school in Derry. I'm not sure if that has any bearing on the matter, but can't imagine why it would.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
According to Grant Russell, five years of education before the age of 18 on the territory of the association concerned would do the trick for eligibility for one of the four British associations: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1714460
A 2006 article from the International Sports Law Journal by Gerard-René de Groot on the relationship between the general legal nationality of a person and their "sporting nationality": https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/10/...t/de-groot.pdf
It might be of interest to some of you.
http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN1CO31L
FIFA to look into changing nationality rules
FIFA is considering an overhaul of the rules which govern players’ eligibility for national teams, including a proposal which would allow them to switch allegiance in certain circumstances.
Victor Montagliani, head of FIFA's stakeholders' committee, said there were issues regarding the rules, which are aimed at preventing players from switching between national teams or representing countries they have no connection with.
"There are so many issues that have popped up over the years because the world is changing, immigration is changing," said the Canadian, who is president of the North, Central America and Caribbean federation (CONCACAF).
"There are nationality issues that pop up all over the world, in Africa, there are issues in Asia and CONCACAF, so its a good time to have a look at this and see if there are solutions, without hurting the integrity of the game."
At present, players who have played a competitive international for one team cannot switch to another national side even when they hold dual nationality.
The Cape Verde football federation has proposed this rule be relaxed in cases where the player has played only one or two games for his original national side but has no realistic chance of a recall
Players are only allowed to represent a country with which they have no blood connection if they have lived and played there for five years, but Montagliani said his committee would look into changing that period and possibly increasing it.
World soccer's ruling body could also look into a compensation scheme in cases where a player goes through the training system of one country and represents it a youth level before switching to another.
The worms...they're everywhere!World soccer's ruling body could also look into a compensation scheme in cases where a player goes through the training system of one country and represents it a youth level before switching to another
Cape Verde?
So this is a ruse to get those Brazilians they wanted.
It's an absolute sham. If they relax the rules then what's the point of Intl football?
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
I think the protection for players - that being that only a senior competitive cap will tie you - is fair enough as it is, as associations are much less likely to throw away competitive caps willy-nilly in order to tie down players, given the obviously more serious nature of competitive games. Theoretically, you can still get some associations sticking a youngster on in the dying moments simply to tie him down and limit his options, but it's surely rare in practice.
Interestingly, whilst wishing to relax that aspect, he wants to see the five-year residency stipulation in article 7(d) increased.
I came across the article below in the Belfast Telegraph (on the city/people of Derry's relationship with the IFA) and had meant to post it as it contains a few of the traditional clangers we've come to expect of the paper's reporting on eligibility/identity matters.
'Is baggage of Derrymen playing for Northern Ireland becoming thing of past?': http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sp...-36225851.html
Oddly (for the Belfast Telegraph), the headline refers to "Derrymen", yet the opening paragraph then reverts to the use of "Londonderry" before returning to the use of "Derry" again in the rest of the piece. I assume this pattern adheres to the paper's style guide, but it does seem a bit silly and incongruous to refer to the city as "Londonderry" when discussing Derrymen.
And is there really any baggage? The likes of Fay Coyle, Liam Coyle, Jobby Crossan, Paddy McCourt and Danny Lafferty have all played for NI, as have many Derry youngsters like Eugene Ferry and others. Often, it's a case of them accepting an opportunity for the advancement of their careers whilst they may not strictly identify nationally with the team. (That's not "baggage; it's just culture/national identification.) Derry people have always understood that. I don't think anyone was calling these players "turncoats" or anything of the sort for accepting IFA call-ups.
The author, Orla Bannon, goes on to make some odd assertions:
Unpalatable?...Really? For whom? Personally, I'd have relished the mouth-watering prospect of a play-off against NI and I suspect many of our fans would similarly have looked forward to a fiery derby clash to secure World Cup qualification. I'm sure many NI fans would feel the same given the (misplaced) grudge many harbour against the FAI over the fact northern-born Irish nationalists have opted to play for the FAI instead of the IFA. What would be the view of posters here?
A "new low" in what way? Some denialism going on here, I think; nationalist-community players who play for NI already opt out of observing 'GSTQ', either by looking sheepish and uncomfortable, by ducking their heads or by full-on "eat me up, ground!" squatting.Just imagine it - the Republic's northern players 'taking a knee' at Windsor Park during God Save The Queen. It would have been a new low, even by our standards.
Who does she mean by "our" and which "already-low" standards is she referring to? Do I sense a subtle dig directed towards James McClean there?
Hmm, not quite. Who you can decide to play for is dependent, first and foremost, on your nationality. If you're an Irish national, you can make yourself available to play for Ireland (so long as you otherwise satisfy the relevant eligibility criteria). If you're a British citizen with a territorial connection to the north through birth, descent or residence/education, you can make yourself available to play for NI. An Irish national from Donegal who is not a legal British national - someone like the DUP's Willie Hay, for example - and who has no territorial, familial or residential/educational connection to the six counties, cannot opt to play for NI, even if they may identify as culturally British and unionist.We live on an island where depending on your beliefs and allegiances, you can decide which country you play for.
That old chestnut again. I've the greatest respect for Liam Coyle, his past footballing abilities and his contribution to football in Derry, but that's no reason to rely on him as an authority on eligibility! There was no right to switch association once when he played – it was formally legislated for by FIFA in 2004 - but the choice still would have been there for northern-born Irish nationals to opt for the FAI in the first place before becoming cap-tied to the IFA. Obviously, awareness of this remains limited."The North has lost out, no doubt about it," says Derry City legend Liam Coyle, who earned one cap for Northern Ireland.
"It's all changed now. In my day we had no choice, the likes of Felix Healy, Terry Harkin and myself, but many young nationalists now are going to opt for the Republic.
Interesting. I hadn't been aware of that. Something worthwhile in the piece at least!The largest Republic of Ireland supporters' club outside of London is based not in Dublin, Cork or Limerick, but in Derry.
It currently boasts more than 450 members and with the city having such strong ties to the current international team, interest has never been higher, so much so that membership is closed for the time being.
International eligibility has always been linked to nationality. As Ángel María Villar, FIFA's former legal committee chairman, said in 2011: "National identity ... is the foundation of national teams."McClean and Northern Ireland's Lafferty grew up on the same streets in Creggan, are good friends, yet play for different countries, a situation facilitated by Fifa's ruling linking nationality to international eligibility.
The IFA challenged it and failed in 2010, but they aren't giving up the fight and are investing in Derry like never before.
There was no "ruling" to introduce this as a recent concept. It has been ever-present for decades, since international football was standardised.
Does she not get that Ireland is the country of birth for tens of thousands of people born in Derry?Coaches go around to schools [in Derry] encouraging young players to play for the country of their birth.
Anyway, hands off our kids! I thought the IFA opposed the aggressive approach...
What's worse is that her name is Orla Bannon.
Wee turncoat.
The article is quite complimentary about Derry peoples' generosity of spirit and tolerance, perhaps even overgenerous.
That is, until we get to Jim Magilton and his negative vibes, contradicting the tone of the article.
What obstacles is mean spirited Jim referring to, that Derry wans put up to prevent the prime of their footballing youth in their pursuit of happiness?
"People want to put up obstacles but all we're doing is selecting players if they are good enough and usually they are delighted,"
Maybe Jim is referring to the "abuse, intimidation and threats" that Gary McAllister was going on about that time he was talking through his derrière?
For me and most people I know who go to NI games regularly. I don't find the high likelihood of public disorder around the games mouth-watering.
Some would, but see above. Obviously my sample is self-selecting to some extent but on the other hand it's a lot of people. Not everyone who agrees with you albeit for the wrong reason has a grudge btw...I'm sure many NI fans would feel the same given the (misplaced) grudge many harbour against the FAI over the fact northern-born Irish nationalists have opted to play for the FAI instead of the IFA
Don't you live there? Surprised you didn't know that [about the Derry RoISSC]. Still, if they aren't allowing new membership...possibly a little paranoid?Interesting. I hadn't been aware of that. Something worthwhile in the piece at least!
We've played each other recently and the only "public disorder" was Northern Ireland fans singing sectarian songs around the stadium while locals ignored them.
I know it's not universal, but it's not an insignificant minority either.
Ha, I'm not a member and hadn't looked into it since moving back. I assume they aren't accepting new members as they wouldn't be able to cater for everybody's ticket expectations, travel demands and that sort of thing with an unlimited number of members. Just a guess, but that's the sense I got from the way the piece frames it.Don't you live there? Surprised you didn't know that [about the Derry RoISSC]. Still, if they aren't allowing new membership...possibly a little paranoid?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 26/10/2017 at 2:22 PM.
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