16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

**dong** · 20/10/2010, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jicked

Why exactly would you change back to winter football, apart from romantic ideas of games being better under the rain and lights? If Harps crowds are suffering, do you really think they'd be any better in November and January with the team struggling in the First Division? It's like the farcical argument from Sligo fans years ago that it was the harvest or some such thing that was keeping local farmers from going to games and so affecting their gates.

Have to agree with you Jicked. I also have those rose tinted glasses for Winter football but it wont bring larger numbers through the turnstiles I don't think.

**Neish** · 20/10/2010, 11:06 PM

Don't really think it maters too much when the season is played, I would probably prefer the current (March - Nov) season, but playing (August/Sept - Apr/May) season would probably make it easier to attract the larger U.K. or other European clubs to come for pre-season games. Also think the players would prefer the summer season.

As for the 16 team top flight, sure it can't hurt to give it a go.
Would it definitely be a 30 game season, was just thinking it may be an idea to copy Scottish Premier league format. After every one plays each other home and away the top 8 and bottom 8 split then play each other once more with perhaps a draw or league placing deciding where the extra fixture will be played

And I think they need to invite 4 clubs (preferably from any counties not already represented in the LOI) into the 1st Division to make up numbers, but I guess 2 would suffice

**PartySaint** · 20/10/2010, 11:26 PM

No please not a split in the league, I hate that

**osarusan** · 20/10/2010, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by PartySaint

No please not a split in the league, I hate that

Howie King, Howie King, Howie King....

**Spudulika** · 21/10/2010, 7:29 AM

For myself I have mixed feelings for both seasons (winter reminds me of childhood games and the smell of turf), summer is more appealing in many ways and it's far nicer visiting Longford in the summer than a filthy November afternoon. A 16 team league can only work if there is (I hate this word but it works) connectivity with other leagues, though maybe winter football is a step towards this.

And as bad as we think it is in Ireland, the genius Fursenko (who has about as many ideas, the same proportion of them being good, as Septic Bladder) has stated teh Russian league will revert to a winter season. One of the great ideas is to pump in hot air to stadiums (no, Roddy hasn't got a job) - of course it just so happens that Gazprom have the inside track, which is great as Fursenko was and is a Gazprom man, along with the rest of the St. Petersburg ex-KGB mafia (Putin, Medvedev etc).

**harpstilidie** · 21/10/2010, 8:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy

I'm all for the return to Winter football.

Having 30 league games versus 33 is not really that much of a concern to me.

16 team prem is fantastic, but, if we're not in it it'll be crap and should have been made an 18 team league. This crack of playing each other 3 or 4 times minimum per season is just terrible.

Summer football = Good
Winter football = very good

7 months of no football? At present that's bloody fantastic. We can do our annual, "this season we are going to be class" talking for a full 7 months without being found out.

Ha! Thats so true! I was so optimistic about this season, that optimism left when we were beaten 3-0 against Limerick in the 4th game of the season and never came back.

I don't really mind whether its summer of winter. I've missed a few games because of it being the summer with being away but still think I prefer it.

As for the 16 team Premier, I'm all for it. We might actually get promoted.

**pineapple stu** · 21/10/2010, 8:45 AM

Interesting that in the current issue of When Saturday Comes, there's an article about the SPL considering a possible move to 16 teams, with one of the reasons being that four league games a season against clubs is so tiresome that the edge is even coming off the Old Firm games.

Also, we've one of the most entertaining close-seasons in the world in recent years. Who's going bust, who's been tapped up illegally, what stupid report have the FAI commissioned this time - we'll easily fill seven months.

**legendz** · 21/10/2010, 9:15 AM

A few leagues have gone the 16 club route. It does leave a gap for a group stage league cup if the interest is there for it. If they are to revert to a winter league, I think they should look at a mid July start. It near when our clubs have kicked off in Europe. The WC and Euro's will have just concluded. A lot of counties GAA seasons will have come to a finish so it'd be a good time to start the LoI and get the crowds in.

**Real ale Madrid** · 21/10/2010, 9:24 AM

We could start the season in January and finish in October. Everyone is happy then. The people who yearn for the days for watching football in cold, wind and rain AND the people who love watching games in summer, even tho, there's very few people there with them because they are all off doing other fun stuff!

The only logical conclusion reading this thread is that nationally organised football in this country should be scrapped as there is no ideal time to play it.

Personally I dont mind either way, however I'm not sure that less matches would equate to less revenue for clubs. One thing I found with watching rugby is that it seems much less of a commitment than football. In professional rugby in this country the provinces only play 14 guarenteed competitive home games a season - spread out out over 9 months. Last season it was 12 games over 9 months. I think its much easier to win over casual fans if you have fewer games, but those games mean a lot more! It means you may sell more season tickets as well. I know both set-ups are completely different but its just a casual observation of both codes.

This idea if true, is very much as one poster already put it - change, for changes sake. If we are going to revamp the league we may as well be a little more radical about it - or else not bother.

My own preference would be for a 14 team league - each team plays each other twice, with play-offs for the Europa League and relegation. Shorten the season a bit and make it a bit easier for the flaoting fan to strike up a relationship with thier local club.

**pineapple stu** · 21/10/2010, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

If we are going to revamp the league we may as well be a little more radical about it - or else not bother.

I don't think radical is the right word. "Considered" is what I'd say. If you're going to do something as major as change the timing of the league, do some fecking research into it first to see if it'll do any good.

If this report is true, what do we expect of the change? How will we know if it's failed or not? What's to stop us changing back again in ten years?

**Jofspring** · 21/10/2010, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I don't think radical is the right word. "Considered" is what I'd say. If you're going to do something as major as change the timing of the league, do some fecking research into it first to see if it'll do any good.

If this report is true, what do we expect of the change? How will we know if it's failed or not? What's to stop us changing back again in ten years?

Agree with this. Would be nice to see the clubs do surves at LOI matches next season and maybe a few International games too to get a broader idea of what might attract people to matches. Obviously better grounds and facitilies would be one of the main things a lot would say but it still might give us a better idea rather than guessing what people might like.

**Louth4sam** · 21/10/2010, 10:03 AM

I'd be surprised if the 9 clubs that voted for Summer were not made up mostly of teams in the premier league. Everyone having an equal vote is commendable but why the hell would Mevue or Wexford youths care about what happens in the premier league when they realistically don't have a chance of being promoted. They vote for what is best for them and rightly so but we could have a case where the bigger clubs suffer

**Fester** · 21/10/2010, 10:09 AM

Report from the the Irish Independent via Pats Website: http://www.stpatsfc.com/media.php?id=4009

Personally I perfer the Winter football, but do not agree that the League should start in August think it should start a month/month & half earlier to help clubs prepare for Europe. As for the 16 club league its better than playing each other far too many time like pats v Sligo which I think is hitting 7/8 meeting for this season alone.

On a side note has any of the clubs which voted for this done any research into a return to winter football. e.g consult/poll you and me the paying customer/punter.

**pineapple stu** · 21/10/2010, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Louth4sam

I'd be surprised if the 9 clubs that voted for Summer were not made up mostly of teams in the premier league. Everyone having an equal vote is commendable but why the hell would Mevue or Wexford youths care about what happens in the premier league when they realistically don't have a chance of being promoted.

Ummm - you know the First Division would have to change season too?

**Louth4sam** · 21/10/2010, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ummm - you know the First Division would have to change season too?

Yeah of course. I meant in relation to European games and standard of pitches. Surely you have seen some of the Bogs in the first division which are a great leveller for weaker teams. Imagine what they'll be like in a winter season.

**Dodge** · 21/10/2010, 10:29 AM

Again, what would first division pitches have to do with Europe?

And don't forget the vote to change seasons, and go a 10 team premier, was already voted in by a majority of clubs.

I think you're way off if you think all the top teams are for a summer season too.

BTW generally speaking, I don't think it'd be right to change season/division set up on the basis of a tight vote. Should have some sort of level (maybe two thirds or so). Do A league teams get a say?

**Louth4sam** · 21/10/2010, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Again, what would first division pitches have to do with Europe?

Nothing that's my point. I'm not picking on Mervue here but they have a vote that could ultimately remove any advantage our teams have when playing in Europe. Mervue will never play in Europe so European football is of no consequence to them. I would imagine standard of pitches would have little consequence either as the standard of football in the first is generally rubbish anyway (I know because we were in it for long enough and were equally muck).

Originally Posted by Dodge

I think you're way off if you think all the top teams are for a summer season too.

Obviously not seeing as only 9 voted for summer. Even if Dundalk voted to change to winter I still think it's the wrong call for the league

**pineapple stu** · 21/10/2010, 10:56 AM

You're also aware that the recent problems in the league have often been as a result of the top sides wanting what they want, and screw the rest?

Ten team league? "Top" side idea to give themselves more gate receipts. Platinum 1? Pushed by the "top" sides. Invitational leagues? Very much pushed by the "top" sides. Wage cap? Actively opposed by the "top" sides.

On that basis, I'd only ask Mervue what they reckon we should do to the league, and follow their suggestions to the letter.

**L.T.F.C.** · 21/10/2010, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by legendz

New clubs have to come from somewhere. At most 4 clubs could be invited to Division One but they could invite only 2 bringing the number to 8 and a 28 game season.
The advantage of any alignment of the LoI and Intermediate/Junior league seasons is that they could work towards building some sort of pyramid structure, starting between the district and Intermediate leagues first before they look at a link from intermediate to the LoI somehow.

People are giving out about the repetition and playing teams 4 times a year is terrible, but you wouldn't mind lumping that on other teams. Real Sound.

**Macy** · 21/10/2010, 11:02 AM

Summer Season

Whether the overall trend of decline is purely down to summer football, the fact is that attendances are down during the summer months when the weather is at it's best. I think this is a fact rather than "give it a try" reason for switching. As was posted earlier, there's actually far more competition from other things during the summer months. It would be interesting to see what the breakdown of summer v winter season supporters is between family people and singletons.

The pitches thing is a bit of red herring imo - we have matches postponed with a summer season for waterlogged and frozen pitches, and we have the crucial matches just as the weather and pitches turn (in a normal autumn).

Europe is niether here nor there - if a summer season was such an advantage in europe, and then if european success (if you can say what we've had is success anyway) was such a benefit for the league, then why would there be any debate about moving in the first place?

It's no coincidence that leagues that have properly researched the switch to a summer season, such as Wales and Scotland have looked into the factors, and our experiment and concluded not to make the switch.

10 team v 16 team

10 team league hasn't worked this time, or the last time. We probably won't make the cut, but once there's promotion and relegation I can live with that. With a 16 team league it should be at least 3 straight down (promotion should be top 2, plus a playoff) - if a premier club is involved in the playoff they should be 4th from bottom. This would mainly to discourage clubs from overstretching to get up, or stay up.

At this stage, I think both the summer season and a 10 team premier should be justifying the continuation of the experiment rather than justifying the switch back to the traditional approach. Both have failed on anything you can measure imo.