16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[legendz]

My own preference would be for a 14 team league - each team plays each other twice, with play-offs for the Europa League and relegation. Shorten the season a bit and make it a bit easier for the flaoting fan to strike up a relationship with thier local club.

Not to go on but I will... 16 would be ideal for 4 groups of 4 in the league Cup as well.

14 would be way too short for the top level, I would see that being ok for intermediate leagues.

[Mario]

This change would have to be for the right reasons!

E.g. do Pats fans think that playing games on winter nights will bring back the big crowds of the Kerr & Dolan eras?

Many Pats fans I know who used to go to every game back then, now have to pick and choose not because of summer v winter but because they are no longer single, living at home and free to jump on the 78a at the drop of a hat and be down at to Ricmond in 15 mins. Plenty of these people are now living out in the commuter belt towns with kids, a wife, a mortgage and a pain in their arse commuting to and from Dublin all week.

Faced with options of either going home to collect the kids and going then back into the game or hanging around town after work, not being able to have a drink and then driving home out to the sticks for one of the less attractive fixtures, means that alot of people think feck it I'll go home have a few beers on the couch, keep an eye on the forum for the scores while surfing facebook and go the derby game two weeks from now instead.

Similar scenairo applies to many fans from others clubs too i'd imagine!

:-(

[Rasputin]

Report from the the Irish Independent via Pats Website: http://www.stpatsfc.com/media.php?id=4009

Personally I perfer the Winter football, but do not agree that the League should start in August think it should start a month/month & half earlier to help clubs prepare for Europe. As for the 16 club league its better than playing each other far too many time like pats v Sligo which I think is hitting 7/8 meeting for this season alone.

On a side note has any of the clubs which voted for this done any research into a return to winter football. e.g consult/poll you and me the paying customer/punter.

Yup exactly, if yee had bet Shams in the Semi Final that would have been our 8th meeting this season.
I dont care what anybody says, this ten team format is repetative and so so boring.
Consider that for our away trips this season 8 of those teams are either in Dublin or within an hour of Dublin, its soul destroying.
This League needs Cork, Derry, Waterford, Limerick etc, give it a bit more spice and variety.

[legendz]

People are giving out about the repetition and playing teams 4 times a year is terrible, but you wouldn't mind lumping that on other teams. Real Sound.

In the short term it'd have to be as the numbers aren't there to have a Division One of 14 clubs or more that they can play each other twice only.

[gufc2000]

Not to go on but I will... 16 would be ideal for 4 groups of 4 in the league Cup as well.

14 would be way too short for the top level, I would see that being ok for intermediate leagues.

The League Cup is already on its knees..it won't survive by introducing group stages. I think if it was replaced by an expanded Setanta Cup knock-out tournament, it would be far more interesting and beneficial.

How about a 14 team league? Play each other 3 times. 39 games, too many games perhaps?

[Shedendinvisibl]

I'm for a return to a winter league for many reasons.

The so called summer season we have begins at the end of winter (late Feb for pre season) and ends in winter (mid November) so ideas of weather being a factor to get people into games is a misnomer. Our warm sunny evenings are limited to maybe 3 months of the year the fact that we have still stuck with evening games makes it a trifle useless to take advantage of. The Scandinavian countries that play a summer season do so out of genuinely freezing weather and not a bit of rain as we get with other countries that get harsher winters than us such as Germany or Switzerland or even the UK managing just fine. A break can be taken before Xmas when crowds were low while teams can play the Xmas games which do well at the gate and maybe a break of 2 weeks after new years to fit in the cup or a mini break when gates always fell. Oh yeah, the point about player contracts is important as we not as attractive a place for comparably skilled UK footballers to look to Ireland to play for; some years ago players came to and from the north or non/low league UK clubs and clubs benefitted as a result.

The casual EFL fan associates football seasons as running from August to April as do the junior park footballers and there is this barrier that they assume summer is no football time. When the league went to night games it helped to raise the profile and crowds as there is something special about floodlights. The casual fans also made visits to our clubs when they have a Spurs or Leeds or whomever to see games, this marketing lever was lost when we couldn't offer friendlies that told people the season was beginning and as such our own pre season buzz was lost; the last few years saw some clubs have dismal crowds for early games as a result.

People also have summer holidays, GAA, Oxygen and festivals and mass concerts, golf, tennis, walking, barbecues etc to deal with. Clubs not only have to deal with apathy, they also have to cope with their other interests and ties getting in the way of games; there are different things in the way and things that clubs have no control over to deal with.

Also, the culling of the current scene of teams playing each other for up to 3-4 league games excluding cup games will make fixtures special again; Tuesday's cup replay was their sixth meeting this year!!! Plus with the admission of several new clubs it will instill a little more fresh blood into the leagues, some fresh away trips, derbies will be special again and fresh teams will make it better again as instills and renews the league wholesale. All the recent changes have been piecemeal; the 10/12 team league being a issue that teams have complained about several times over the years.

However, as has been mentioned the fans never get asked about changes like this but I doubt if Delaney and his donkeys will TBH.

[harps1954]

Remember folks, this is just a proposal that the clubs have put to the FAI. The FAI (or the League Executive Committee which John Delaney chairs) will make the final decision. They are meeting in Dublin today, and will decide whether to accept the proposals of the clubs. They might well stick to a ten team Premier but go with Winter football, or go with a 16 team league but stick to summer football. They might also decide to make no changes, which is the most likely outcome.

On another side note, RTE must send a camera to every Premier Division game as per their agreement with the FAI. Will they have a say? Will they send a camera to eight games every week if the league expanded to a 16 team Premier?

[PartySaint]

If there was to be a change to a 16 team league the clubs I would like to see in it would be:

Pats
Bohs
Rovers
Shels
Derry
Cork
Dundalk
Drogs
Sligo
Galway
Mons
Finn Harps
Limerick
Waterford
Longford
Athlone

If you club isnt there don't start bitching and moaning and telling me how well run yous are, I just don't like yous, simple as..

Oh and special mention for Cobh who I would also like to see it in at some stage

Jesus i forgot Bray, You guys can come to

[micls]

Summer Season


The pitches thing is a bit of red herring imo - we have matches postponed with a summer season for waterlogged and frozen pitches, and we have the crucial matches just as the weather and pitches turn (in a normal autumn).

But surely this proves it's not a red herring? If we're already having games postponed in February/March then surely we'll have even more postponed when you have november/ecember/January added to that.

If we had been playing winter football last season, we wouldn't have gotten a game played down here in December/January, certainly not one with people at it anyway

[Louth4sam]

You're also aware that the recent problems in the league have often been as a result of the top sides wanting what they want, and screw the rest?

Ten team league? "Top" side idea to give themselves more gate receipts. Platinum 1? Pushed by the "top" sides. Invitational leagues? Very much pushed by the "top" sides. Wage cap? Actively opposed by the "top" sides.

On that basis, I'd only ask Mervue what they reckon we should do to the league, and follow their suggestions to the letter.

Fair enough point but there has to be some sort of happy medium. I'm not saying that the big clubs should have all the power but should the strength of the league in Europe be sacrificed in the hope that a couple of dozen extra punters might come through the turnstyles? Also some of the standard of football this season has been excellent with Sligo, Bray and yourselves all trying to play the ball on the ground. What will happen when trying to play on bogs in the middle of winter?

[pineapple stu]

Should Mervue sacrifice their chances of growing their crowds to allow Bohs lose to a team of Latvians again?

[passinginterest]

I know junior football on public pitches is not a real comparison but I'm going to use it anyway (and considering the state of some League of Ireland grounds it's probably not that far off), last season we played once in November, not at all in December, once in January and once in February, pitches and conditions were appaling for four months. I know last year was exceptionally bad but there would have been serious disruption to the league.

I've been talking about a 16 team leauge for ages so cetainly in favour of that, but I think the summer season should be given another few years. I do think there are advantages to alignment with the UK leagues though, for loaning and signing players in particular.

[legendz]

The League Cup is already on its knees..it won't survive by introducing group stages. I think if it was replaced by an expanded Setanta Cup knock-out tournament, it would be far more interesting and beneficial.

How about a 14 team league? Play each other 3 times. 39 games, too many games perhaps?

Well if the League Cup was run with a group stage to make up the 6 games less a season, they could give in a Europa League place and a final in the Aviva.

[Louth4sam]

Should Mervue sacrifice their chances of growing their crowds to allow Bohs lose to a team of Latvians again?

If it meant more exposure for the league then yes they should. Is Mervue getting 120 rather than 110 supporters going to make the news headlines or improve the image of the league? Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television. I don't think it is possible to try and improve the strength of the league without increasing the gap between the strongest and the weakest clubs.

[Fester]

This change would have to be for the right reasons!

E.g. do Pats fans think that playing games on winter nights will bring back the big crowds of the Kerr & Dolan eras?

Many Pats fans I know who used to go to every game back then, now have to pick and choose not because of summer v winter but because they are no longer single, living at home and free to jump on the 78a at the drop of a hat and be down at to Ricmond in 15 mins. Plenty of these people are now living out in the commuter belt towns with kids, a wife, a mortgage and a pain in their arse commuting to and from Dublin all week.

Faced with options of either going home to collect the kids and going then back into the game or hanging around town after work, not being able to have a drink and then driving home out to the sticks for one of the less attractive fixtures, means that alot of people think feck it I'll go home have a few beers on the couch, keep an eye on the forum for the scores while surfing facebook and go the derby game two weeks from now instead.

Similar scenairo applies to many fans from others clubs too i'd imagine!

:-(

Funny enough that is exactly my predicament!! Will it bring back the crowds during the winter!! Maybe not. Teams like Pats need to re-invent themselves in their local area as many have moved as you say to the computer belts and have to pick and choose matches.

[brendy_éire]

The issue of switching to summer football is constantly being brought up in the IL. Funny that we're going the other way.

Personally, I love summer football. The weather's nicer, ye don't leave the ground with frostbite on your feet, and the drive home from away games isn't on roads covered with black ice.

Referring the IL, how many fixtures did they have called off last season? A few weekends, the only matches played were by Crusaders at home with their plastic pitch. We'd have the same problem in the LoI too (well, bar Dundalk, that is).

I don't mind the 16 team Premier, which probably does make more sense than our 10 team arrangement.
What I find a bit pathetic, is some clubs using summer football as an excuse for their failures on the pitch.

[pineapple stu]

Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television.

And the league will get as much good out of it as came of Shels' draw against Depor. That factor is seriously over-rated.

[Shedendinvisibl]

I know junior football on public pitches is not a real comparison but I'm going to use it anyway (and considering the state of some League of Ireland grounds it's probably not that far off), last season we played once in November, not at all in December, once in January and once in February, pitches and conditions were appaling for four months. I know last year was exceptionally bad but there would have been serious disruption to the league.

It is a red herring as council pitches will always be called off at the mere thought of rain or frost. LOI and clubs with private pitches have groundskeepers and maybe 2 games a week tops to cope with; some council pitches see 2-3 games a day twice a weekend on them and with no TLC either.

[Macy]

If it meant more exposure for the league then yes they should. Is Mervue getting 120 rather than 110 supporters going to make the news headlines or improve the image of the league? Rovers playing Juventus last year was a great advertisement for the league was in all the papers and on national television. I don't think it is possible to try and improve the strength of the league without increasing the gap between the strongest and the weakest clubs.

And what was the result of all this exposure? Better an extra 10 through every gate all season than a bit of coverage for an exceptional draw for a couple of weeks for one club.

[Macy]

But surely this proves it's not a red herring? If we're already having games postponed in February/March then surely we'll have even more postponed when you have november/ecember/January added to that.

If we had been playing winter football last season, we wouldn't have gotten a game played down here in December/January, certainly not one with people at it anyway

I don't recall postponements being a major issue before. When was the last winter as hard as last year? And anyway, with less games there'd be more midweeks free for rearrangements.