16 Team Premier Division / Winter Season from 2012/13 TODAY'S DAILY MAIL

[EalingGreen]

There's a report by Philip Quinn in today's Irish Daily Mail saying that the 22 League of Ireland clubs met in Athlone on Monday night last regarding the structure of the LOI. The outcome of the meeting was that the clubs voted on a majority of 12-9 (one club must not have attended or didn't vote) to change the following:

- Summer Soccer gone to be replaced by a Winter Season from August 2012
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- Setanta Cup to be run-off during the month of July specifically to help the teams that qualify for Europe

Hmmm.

Whilst a reversion by the LOI to winter football would help greatly in co-ordinating with the IL for Setanta purposes generally, I wonder whether the proponents of the July proposal bothered to ask their IL counterparts what they thought about that?

Since the IL is overwhelmingly part-time (and also because IL clubs do not prioritise European football so much as LOI clubs), many/most players take their holidays in July (also traditional for their "day-job" employers).

Also, July is smack-bang in the middle of the "Marching Season" - I can't see the PSNI being too happy to have to police football during that period, especially visits by LOI clubs across the border to NI (or from Derry for that matter, should they get promotion)

[Jicked]

Where are the better facilities which are a result of the switch to summer football?

You're reducing the amount of games that will be played in bogs around the country. That's on the pitch. Off the pitch, you've got deathtraps like Connaught St in Dalymount that doesn't exactly lend itself well to the dark, rain or ice, also expecting fans to go to places like Carlisle Grounds and stand on bare terracing. The long drives for the likes of Cork and Derry are a little nicer in the daylight than depths of dark winter. It just makes supporting League of Ireland football a little nicer, safer and more marketable.

[Dodge]

I'd argue, pretty strongly too, that full time football has had a bigger impact on European results.

But even if you say that summer football helps European results, and therefore the image of the league... what good has it done? Crowds are down massively all over the league from 7/8/9 years ago. Why good is 2/3 european wins a season if it doesn't help get people actually going to the games?

IT just makes supporting League of Ireland football a little nicer, safer and more marketable.

So why are crowds down (your own club being the exception and we all know the weather has nothing to do with that)?

[pineapple stu]

not so sure about that. Anyway, why are people so quick to want a return to winter football?

Personally, football matches are more atmospheric under floodlights than in the blazing sun. The latter feel like meaningless friendlies. That's not the most scientific of reasons to prefer winter football, but it's my reason anyway.

But I agree with Mr A that any change should be properly researched and not just a knee-jerk reaction (like the last time).

[osarusan]

You're reducing the amount of games that will be played in bogs around the country. That's on the pitch. Off the pitch, you've got deathtraps like Connaught St in Dalymount that doesn't exactly lend itself well to the dark, rain or ice, also expecting fans to go to places like Carlisle Grounds and stand on bare terracing. The long drives for the likes of Cork and Derry are a little nicer in the daylight than depths of dark winter. It just makes supporting League of Ireland football a little nicer, safer and more marketable.

So by better facilities you mean better weather?

I've no great preference when it comes to winter or summer football. What I don't want to see is another overhaul of the league on the assumption that this one will finally solve our problems. There are no great merits to a switch to winter football, but in my opinion, no great merits for sticking with summer football either. This new proposal stinks of change for change's sake, just like the last one was. I don't see any reason why more people will watch St. Pats versus Sligo (for example) in a 16-team league than a 12-team league.

Any overhaul which doesn't address the issue of crap facilities at virtually every ground in the LOI is missing the point, in my opinion.

[Jicked]

In reply to Dodge, crowds are down for a whole host of reasons, that you know all about. Do you really think it's because people are off on their holliers or because Tubercurry is having a harvest festival?

So by better facilities you mean better weather?

Well, the weather impacts on the facilities for fans and players. Good luck trying to play football at Tallaght Stadium during winter with the winds that come down from the mountains.

Like pineapple stu says above, the desire to go back to winter football is rooted in a romantic idea that watching games under the lights is more fun (in fact this way we have the two most important parts of the season when interest is at its highest - start and finish - played under lights). It won't make a blind bit of difference to attendances, but will impact negatively on the media coverage of the League, standard of football and European results of the League (and so again knock another revenue stream)

[pineapple stu]

People being away on their holidays has affected crowds. You can pretty much take that as read. I've noticed it at UCD games (including missing games myself), I've noticed it on the attendances thread, and it makes sense - if, say, 40% of the population go away for two weeks in the summer, then over the course of those 8 weeks, your crowds are going to be down 10% on your regular crowd every week.

Yes, there are other reasons, but to suggest holidays isn't one is just wrong.

[Jicked]

People being away on their holidays has affected crowds. You can pretty much take that as read. I've noticed it at UCD games (including missing games myself), I've noticed it on the attendances thread, and it makes sense - if, say, 80% of the population go away for two weeks in the summer, then over the course of those 8 weeks, your crowds are going to be down 10% on your regular crowd every week.

Yes, there are other reasons, but to suggest holidays isn't one is just wrong.

Not offset by more parents taking kids to games over the course of a summer in a bid to fill the holidays, including attendance at clubs various summer camps etc? It's a very unscientific way of looking at things, so to start trying to use the attendance thread as empirical proof so we move the entire league to a time when the Murphy family aren't off to Butlins, is a bit off.

[pineapple stu]

You said that people being on holidays wasn't a factor. I'm showing that it is a factor. You can't deny it's a factor by pointing to a completely different factor.

[Jicked]

Ok, well in that case people getting a cold in winter is a factor. I distinctly remember missing a couple of games when I had a flu around November once. I also visit the relatives at the start of January so that's another factor I hope the league considers.

[hoops1]

Summer football has many advantages over winter football. But the most basic and important one when it comes down to it is better football is possible in summer due to the weather conditions.

[Rasputin]

It's like the farcical argument from Sligo fans years ago that it was the harvest or some such thing that was keeping local farmers from going to games and so affecting their gates.

Are you sure your not confusing that with Toolan's farcical comments to the papers that we are losing the Housewives due to Summer football?
I dont recall that farmers comment, believe it or not farmers arent exactly a core support base for us, either are Housewives for that matter.

[pineapple stu]

Ok, well in that case people getting a cold in winter is a factor. I distinctly remember missing a couple of games when I had a flu around November once. I also visit the relatives at the start of January so that's another factor I hope the league considers.

So you reckon at any one time in the winter, 10% of people are laid low with the cold?

[Dodge]

In reply to Dodge, crowds are down for a whole host of reasons, that you know all about. Do you really think it's because people are off on their holliers or because Tubercurry is having a harvest festival?

Its do with holidays, beergardens, BBQs, games of golf and every other thing that floating fans prefer to spend their summer evenings doing. Can only speak from personal experience but I’ve far more “stuff” on in the Summer and although I might be willing to **** off the missus by skipping these for football, I’m not sure most are.

In the winter there are far less things to do. Yes, that sounds extremely small time but it’s the truth

I also think its hugely ironic that Rovers fans are arguing for summer football on the basis of "better football" when their team plays hoofball regardless of conditions (and yeah, my team sucks too)

[Mr A]

This was voted on by the clubs, so I guess enough of them felt that the summer season was hurting them. You'd hope the clubs had thought it through.

[Ciaran W]

It all sounds great but i dont think 30 league games a season is enough, in my opinion anyway.

[Dodge]

This was voted on by the clubs, so I guess enough of them felt that the summer season was hurting them. You'd hope the clubs had thought it through.

The same clubs who voted for the 10 team premier and summer football.

The crying shame is that all this tinkering about won't help solve the real problems in the league.

[legendz]

Football in this country did get inventive, we switched to summer soccer with good results, but now it seems there's a chance of being dragged back to winter football on the back of crazy arguments that there'd be an increase in attendance if we played more games in the p*ssing rain.

As for a League Cup, it's the better teams who make any cup interesting. Do you think Rovers/Bohs/Pats/Sligo/Whoever it may be will be arsed playing group stages and knock out rounds for a European place they'll probably have secured through league or FAI Cup football.

While the 16 Division team might have some merit to it, the idea of winter football is just crazy.

It depends when the final was played. The League Cup final would be the first chance I'd imagine of securing European football. They could also more the final to the Aviva. If a European place was given to the League Cup, the only guaranteed Europa League place available through the league would be second but like other countries to could bring in a 4 team play-off for that final Europa League place.
I'd like to see if there would be support for moving Junior football to summer football instead of the LoI back to winter football.

[White Horse]

Winter football.

I'm glad we have our "plastic" pitch. Maybe, other managers and lazy journalists won't be so quick to sneer at a surface that doesn't resemble a recently ploughed field.

[passerrby]

chips to keeep the kids warm, hot bovril to thaw your hands, stamping your feet and singing to keep out the cold. and a hot whiskey (for madicinal reasons) after the game.oh the memories ...what a load of bo%***k, hated it .its cold enough in our summers without playing in force ten gales and storms