Euro 2012 Qualifying Group B - General Discussion

**geysir** · 06/09/2010, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Brady stated on RTE on Friday that at no point did Trapattoni ever tell the players to hang back and defend

Didn't Giles retort that not being told to be offensive and go for the win, amounts to the same as being told to hang back and defend?

**tetsujin1979** · 06/09/2010, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

did they not have a slice of luck against Cyprus? and then against us.

won 2-1 in Cyprus, only scored the winner in the 92nd minute
were 2-0 down at home until Gilardino came on and scored a hat trick, the winner again in the 92nd minute

**SwanVsDalton** · 06/09/2010, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Italy had the bulk of the fortune last time around in the away games, grabbing the winner in Montenegro was a bummer, that bizzarre game against Georgia, did they not have a slice of luck against Cyprus? and then against us.

According to Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FI...3_UEFA_Group_8

Last minute winner against Cyprus away, last minute equaliser away to us, two own goals to beat Georgia in Tbilisi. Not to mention two late goals to win 3-2 at home to Cyprus.

**Sullivinho** · 06/09/2010, 2:37 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Didn't Giles retort that not being told to be offensive and go for the win, amounts to the same as being told to hang back and defend?

Trap almost certainly instructs the central midfielders to 'protect the back four' first and foremost. I think it was Paul Green who said those were his instructions upon joining the setup.

**tetsujin1979** · 06/09/2010, 4:15 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Didn't Giles retort that not being told to be offensive and go for the win, amounts to the same as being told to hang back and defend?

the full post match discussion is online here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/2...action_av.html
Needs realplayer

Brady mentioning working in the backroom, and Trapattoni's tactics is at the 6:30 mark
It's Bill who retorts, he interrupts Brady to say "but they did play like that [they were told to hang back] at times"

**geysir** · 06/09/2010, 4:26 PM

Originally Posted by Sullivinho

Trap almost certainly instructs the central midfielders to 'protect the back four' first and foremost. I think it was Paul Green who said those were his instructions upon joining the setup.

I agree with all you wrote except I would not have used the word "almost".
But it's not exactly like the 4th secret of fatima is it?

**geysir** · 06/09/2010, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

the full post match discussion is online here: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/mns/2...action_av.html
Needs realplayer

Brady mentioning working in the backroom, and Trapattoni's tactics is at the 6:30 mark
It's Bill who retorts, he interrupts Brady to say "but they did play like that [they were told to hang back] at times"

The bit I was trying to remember came after Brady explained the 'long ball to Doyle strategy' where Liam mentioned that Trap 'does not tell the players not to get forward'. Giles said as part of his reply that there is a difference between not telling to do it (i.e. not to tell the players not to get forward) and encouraging them to do it (i.e get forward).

**mypost** · 06/09/2010, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Hence the need for more creativity and at least an element of risk, in certain games. A win and a loss v.Bulgaria would have been better, similarly Montenegro. And possibly even Italy, though there I'd have taken two draws for the kudos at the time....

Trap didn't get where he is, by taking risks. Having qualified for one tournament in 16 years, taking risks is not a policy that serves us very well.

The game on Friday was no classic, but the points on the board make up for it. A more carefree approach would probably have resulted in less than what we have.

**Sullivinho** · 06/09/2010, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

But it's not exactly like the 4th secret of fatima is it?

Exactly.

Nor would I think the Holy Father and co. are keepers of the fact our central midfielders are fairly limited. With talk of straightjackets and the like you'd think we had some reservoir of flair and creativity that Trap was stubbornly refusing to tap. In my opinion, Paris was less about escaping the Don's shackles and more the players realising a one-off situation and the fact they were 90 minutes away from the World Cup, which caused them to excel within the system. Even so, it's not like Andrews and Whelan were channelling Giles and Brady on the night. What I wouldn't mind seeing is a little more of the assertiveness/confidence they showed on that occasion. That at least, they're capable of.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 06/09/2010, 8:52 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

Trap didn't get where he is, by taking risks. Having qualified for one tournament in 16 years, taking risks is not a policy that serves us very well.

The game on Friday was no classic, but the points on the board make up for it. A more carefree approach would probably have resulted in less than what we have.

Exactly. That's why we ended up in the play-offs last time.
And the same I suspect will happen on this occasion, albeit for a far more pointless tournament.

**mypost** · 06/09/2010, 10:39 PM

It's highly probable that we'll head to Zilina with 9 points in our pocket. So the style of play works. You mightn't like it, but it works. And while it works, you can't moan about it.

**Razors left peg** · 06/09/2010, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Exactly. That's why we ended up in the play-offs last time.
And the same I suspect will happen on this occasion, albeit for a far more pointless tournament.

The European Championships is a pointless tournament??

**geysir** · 06/09/2010, 11:30 PM

Not only is the European Championship pointless but ArdeeBhoy thinks the WC is just less pointless than the Euros.

You have managed to dig a rather massive large hole for yourself Ardeebhoy in this recent discussion

**Charlie Darwin** · 06/09/2010, 11:34 PM

You'd think he'd have been delighted about the Catholics beating the Orangemen in the final this year. Apparently not.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 06/09/2010, 11:57 PM

Except it's mainly tongue in cheek.

But yes, the Euros are largely pointless when compared to the spectacle of the World Cup.
That said would settle for qualification, but just can't see it with the current tactics overall. We seem to be trying to be a poor man's Switzerland??
Maybe we'll turn on a great performance v.the might of Andorra and all will be sweetness and light.

As for Spain, beating the uber non-football of the Dutch in Soccer City, was a virtual no-brainer. Though even they mainly disappointed in terms of real flair. Germany & Argentina were the best teams to watch IMO.

**mypost** · 07/09/2010, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Except it's mainly tongue in cheek.

But yes, the Euros are largely pointless when compared to the spectacle of the World Cup.

In 365 nights time, we'll be coming back from Moscow. If, as is likely, we are in a great position going into the last two games to qualify, anyone who whines that going across the border to Donetsk the following summer is "pointless" risks earache at best.

You qualify for what you can, when you can. The World Cup great spectacle as it is, isn't the same standard of football as the European Championships. The difference between the last two tournaments demonstrated that clearly.

**DannyInvincible** · 07/09/2010, 3:05 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

It's highly probable that we'll head to Zilina with 9 points in our pocket. So the style of play works. You mightn't like it, but it works. And while it works, you can't moan about it.

I like your confidence. But do you genuinely think we'll comfortably beat Russia at home? I'd love to see it, and I admit I didn't see Russia against Andorra - maybe they were truly diabolical - nor can I really say I'm up-to-scratch on the ability of their current side, but I can't see it being an easy game, or a "highly probably" three points, as you put it. If we come out of that tie with the three points, I have a feeling it'll be after a tenacious dog-fight and having scraped our way to victory.

Is the Slovakia game definitely in Zilina then?

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2010, 6:36 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

It's highly probable that we'll head to Zilina with 9 points in our pocket. So the style of play works. You mightn't like it, but it works. And while it works, you can't moan about it.

I admire your optimism.

**mypost** · 07/09/2010, 7:27 AM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I like your confidence. But do you genuinely think we'll comfortably beat Russia at home? If we come out of that tie with the three points, I have a feeling it'll be after a tenacious dog-fight and having scraped our way to victory.

We'll have the ball for 90 minutes to score one goal at home. That should be enough. Russia will come for a point, but they're not Germany, Italy, or Spain, and if we harbour serious ideas of winning the group, we really have to beat them and the Slovaks at home.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 07/09/2010, 7:45 AM

And there in lies the rub. Do we have the creativity to beat both our main rivals at home. Not to mention Macedonia/Armenia, for sure?
Even if we get to 'Polkraine', such will be the 'enthusiam' myself included, that most people on here won't even contemplate going.....

Really wish the lads all the best for the qualifiers but if Trap doesn't change the overall tactics, especially given the stubborness over certain players, we're going to make really hard work of the campaign. And it won't be pretty.