Rugby now more popular than football AND GAA?!

[Spudulika]

Some serious wumming here, and not very entertaining. Either that or there's too much web access in St. Brendans :-)

[Murfinator]

And did anybody challenge him on it?

If Horgan had qualified his remark by saying had it been an Old Firm game or Ajax v Feyenoord, Rovers v Bohs or whatever, he might be right. But France v ROI in Paris - no way.

You're right. Soccer hooliganism is a problem though I think when used it should be applied solely to the sets of fans who have a strong reputation for that kind of behaviour. The likes of Serbia, England, Turkey etc could certainly have made for ugly scenes that night in a soccer game although as Ireland are amongst the best behaved fans out there we could justifiably feel sore when compared to the likes of them.

[Jinxy]

An Irish international rugby player was involved in an assault case which was before the courts recently.
Very little mention in the media.
Contrast this with the coverage a couple of Irish international soccer players got for climbing on a parked car when they were locked.

[geysir]

For a second there, I thought the car was locked.

[tetsujin1979]

to be fair, I've heard of two former internationals who have made court appearances without much mention in the press

[Jinxy]

to be fair, I've heard of two former internationals who have made court appearances without much mention in the press

That's different.

[amaccann]

An Irish international rugby player was involved in an assault case which was before the courts recently.
Very little mention in the media.
Contrast this with the coverage a couple of Irish international soccer players got for climbing on a parked car when they were locked.

In fairness, it probably wasn't covered because the Irish news media has become hopelessly obsessed with the economic situation here and in the EU. Celebrity/sports tattle ranks fairly low in their radar atm. I doubt it was part of some pro-rugby agenda on their behalf.
And besides, the 'antics' of the English rugby team & its players has been well reported in the media over the last few months, most recently being arrest of one D. Armitage on suspicion of assault.

[drummerboy]

to be fair, I've heard of two former internationals who have made court appearances without much mention in the press

There was a very serious case of a hit and run in which a former rugby international was found guilty.

[Macy]

There was a very serious case of a hit and run in which a former rugby international was found guilty.

Assuming it's the one that I'm thinking of, that had plenty of press mention, including TV coverage around the court case.

[drummerboy]

Assuming it's the one that I'm thinking of, that had plenty of press mention, including TV coverage around the court case.

There sure was.

[Jinxy]

In fairness, it probably wasn't covered because the Irish news media has become hopelessly obsessed with the economic situation here and in the EU. Celebrity/sports tattle ranks fairly low in their radar atm. I doubt it was part of some pro-rugby agenda on their behalf.
And besides, the 'antics' of the English rugby team & its players has been well reported in the media over the last few months, most recently being arrest of one D. Armitage on suspicion of assault.

Now that's stretching it a bit.

[Paddy Garcia]

Both rugby and football have their own fair share of nobs. The silly comments of one or two rugby folks don't deserve any retort. I think amaccan has it right in his analysis.

On a different and more general note, rather than blame the fans for a drift from football to rugby or to cheaply dismiss them as event junkies perhaps we should first look at ourselves to see whether there mighty be any reasons supporters from 10-20 years ago may have drifted away. There may be other good reasons why a fans passion may have been dampened:

• The Saipan affair
• The appointment of Stan
• Granny gate
• A bunch of early retirements - S Reid; S Ireland; A O'Brien; S Carr; S Finnan (??); (contrast with the old days when we had players turning up almost eligible for their pension)
• The perseverance with Don Givens
• The various Delaney debacles
• The apparent efforts to drive McCarthy to play for Scotland
• The injury laden response to squad call ups (OK we always had some of this but we also had players taking shots so they could take to the field in a green jersey [e.g. Townsend])
• A general cynicism/greed that pervades across football - any interview with Chris Hughton still shocks me as the dignity and humility he displays is such a contrast to most other big time managers. He seems too nice a guy for this game!
• Constant reports of mismanagement and communication breakdowns

Personally the suspicion that 3 of Irelands potential best 11 may be sitting at home watching the Euro finals (McLean, Wilson & Clark) fills me with despair. I don't know if this is the case cos they have not been tried. Traps loyalty to his players is commendable & important - however he should not forget that his prime loyalties are to the nation and to the fans.


Anyway a catalogue of self inflected wounds I'd suggest have not done football any favours and would try the most stoical of fans.

[Charlie Darwin]

There was a bizarre segment on Setanta's rugby show today where a viewer emailed in the opinion that some habits were creeping into the game from soccer, and used lying on the wrong side of the ruck as an example, as if a) this was something Ronaldo is always at, or b) rugby players haven't been doing this since the game began. Neil Francis agreed 100% of course. Roy Keane on ITV added that you'd never see Messi lying on the wrong side of a ruck.

[DannyInvincible]

Personally the suspicion that 3 of Irelands potential best 11 may be sitting at home watching the Euro finals (McLean, Wilson & Clark) fills me with despair. I don't know if this is the case cos they have not been tried. Traps loyalty to his players is commendable & important - however he should not forget that his prime loyalties are to the nation and to the fans.

Does he have some primary duty to the fans though? I understand your frustration, but I'd be worried if a manager let fan opinion dictate his team selections.

[osarusan]

I think the point is that his responsibility (to the nation and the fans) is to get the best result possible in Euro 2012, even if it means selecting some players in place of those who played a role in helping us qualify.

[amaccann]

Now that's stretching it a bit.

Ah I was only joking for the most part tbh But yes, there is a disparity in critical sports journalism you are right.

On a different and more general note, rather than blame the fans for a drift from football to rugby or to cheaply dismiss them as event junkies perhaps we should first look at ourselves to see whether there mighty be any reasons supporters from 10-20 years ago may have drifted away. There may be other good reasons why a fans passion may have been dampened:

[...]

I think you've hit on a very big part of the change in the popularity: like it or lump it, Irish football's image isn't great*. As easy as it might to dismiss the shift in support as the movement of fair-weather fans, I think that avoids having to ask questions as to why Football seems like the poorer cousin these days. Most of us are capable of supporting more than one field sport at a time with equal passion so it's too simplistic to assume it's simply shallowness; however, when one of our favorites seems to self-destruct on an almost continuous basis, it's hard not to let ones enthusiasm wane a little bit. From Saipan onwards, sometimes it feels like football in this country has stumbled from one big 'issue' to another, never truly getting its act together on a national or international level. With the polar opposite being those in the IRFU. It's only ever going to stretch people's patience.

Now, that said, my own personal view is that most of this coverage is more about the media muck-raking & digging out the next Saipan, rather than any kind of responsible sports journalism. And that's less about a rivalry between soccer & rugby, and more about the crass eagerness by some in the media to pick an easy target & squeeze. When all's said and done, the James McClean issue is a fairly minor one (political debates notwithstanding), yet to read some sections of the media it's a crisis-level issue. To contrast: there's a whole host of quality, young players shamefully being left idle by Kidney in this years 6 nations, yet the clamour from the rugby journos is tepid compared to that of the footie crowd.

* Nothing that a good Euro2012 won't fix of course.

There was a bizarre segment on Setanta's rugby show today where a viewer emailed in the opinion that some habits were creeping into the game from soccer, and used lying on the wrong side of the ruck as an example, as if a) this was something Ronaldo is always at, or b) rugby players haven't been doing this since the game began. Neil Francis agreed 100% of course. Roy Keane on ITV added that you'd never see Messi lying on the wrong side of a ruck.

I should poiint out once again the Francis is the biggest idiot in Rugby journalism and nothing more than Eamon Dunphy without the charm.

[Supreme feet]

Personally the suspicion that 3 of Irelands potential best 11 may be sitting at home watching the Euro finals (McLean, Wilson & Clark) fills me with despair.

Wilson is a utility player who hasn't excelled in any position. Can't see what he would bring besides versatility, and we have several players already who can cover multiple positions. Clark has the potential to be a better CB than St. Ledger, but I know who I'd trust more if we were playing tomorrow. Perhaps either player could get in ahead of Ward, but neither are specialist left-backs.

McClean may well become a better player than McGeady, and it's a pity he isn't in the squad, but it wouldn't fill me with despair to see McGeady picked ahead of him for the Euros.

[elroy]

Other sports could only ever dream of the national interest/hysteria etc that the likes of Saipan brought. While it may not have been a 'good' story, no such thing as bad publicity and all that. The general working man on the street has more interest in football than rugby, although it must be admitted that rugby has made great strides in recent years. Look at the crowd in the RDS the other night for an arguably second string leinster take on a second string scarlets. Whats rugbys danger now is that many of their fans have an attitude ala England football, that the club or in this case province is more important that the international team.

[PatJR]

The expectation levels for national football side still far exceeds that of the rugby team. I can't believe people still celebrate triple crowns for example. Rugby WC 2007 was a disaster for Ireland and last year no better, before a ball was kicked Ireland were in the 1/4 finals so really they fell at the first hurdle. Imagine if the most talented Ireland soccer team had similar achievements. For the last decade Ireland have had one of the best rugby squads, some top class individuals and a set up that has nothing but advantages.....one six nations title. For Ireland's soccer team it's not good enough to qualify anymore, the style counts too!!

To the big list of reasons above why people turned from soccer etc etc. Just two reasons to stick with it. Love football, love Ireland. Otherwise you are a fair weathered event junkie, period.

[Colbert Report]

There are far more quality teams in international football than international rugby. For example, can you see the Spanish, Italian, or Croatian national rugby teams giving us trouble at a big rugby tournament?