QuoteDo we know when it'll be announced?
Do we know when it'll be announced?
Surely you are not quoting the soccer participation statistic from that ESRI document which for minimum academic standards of presentation you should have reference a specific paragraph not the whole document?Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Page 35 onwards of that document, Soccer participation (graph p 36) is defined by the ESRI as also participating in an informal 30 minute, 5 a side, once a week. Some 60% of adult (>16 years) who claimed soccer participation, did it away from a club and only 40% was done at a soccer club.
GAA have 300,000 registered players who are members of a GAA club and who do 98% of their GAA participation at the GAA club. Even a very superficial glance at the state of both codes throughout the country bears witness to poor state of soccer.
If the sports participation figures bore some relation to reality, the picture of the state of soccer throughout the country would be very different.
The big issue that soccer has in relation to the GAA and IRFU is that it's 'infrastructurally' challenged and however involved youth under 16 years are with soccer at school or club, they mainly graduate from that school or club soccer field. towards the barstool level of participation.
Shamrock Rovers are doing nicely with their training and academy, though it looks pretty basic and minimal, but in Ireland that's top of the line. A leading club like SR with their profile and base should be aiming to have many standards of teams, across 10 age categories, for both sexes and an overall manager for each age level.
I agree. I wasn't trying to portray football as being in a healthy state in Ireland in spite of its obvious popularity. If anything, it's an even greater shame that football is in such a poor nation-wide state given how popular it is.Surely you are not quoting the soccer participation statistic from that ESRI document which for minimum academic standards of presentation you should have reference a specific paragraph not the whole document?
Page 35 onwards of that document, Soccer participation (graph p 36) is defined by the ESRI as also participating in an informal 30 minute, 5 a side, once a week. Some 60% of adult (>16 years) who claimed soccer participation, did it away from a club and only 40% was done at a soccer club.
GAA have 300,000 registered players who are members of a GAA club and who do 98% of their GAA participation at the GAA club. Even a very superficial glance at the state of both codes throughout the country bears witness to poor state of soccer.
If the sports participation figures bore some relation to reality, the picture of the state of soccer throughout the country would be very different.
The big issue that soccer has in relation to the GAA and IRFU is that it's 'infrastructurally' challenged and however involved youth under 16 years are with soccer at school or club, they mainly graduate from that school or club soccer field. towards the barstool level of participation.
Shamrock Rovers are doing nicely with their training and academy, though it looks pretty basic and minimal, but in Ireland that's top of the line. A leading club like SR with their profile and base should be aiming to have many standards of teams, across 10 age categories, for both sexes and an overall manager for each age level.
11 pages in Saturday's Independent devoted to rugby. Ok, I shouldn't be surprised at a paper which set aside 5 pages to Steve Gerrard's retirement but I am not sure even Italia '90 got such coverage.
Looks like we're a poor third ok to the GAA and rugby but who cares.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Where's dodge to spout his usual faux stats about soccer participation in ireland?
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
Nothing succeeds like success.
I'd still hazard a substantial wager that Man United or Liverpool are more popular in, say, Dublin than Leinster rugby. If Liverpool moved to Dublin during the Anfield refurb I'd say the crowds would be huge.
In GAA we're a key player in a field of one. Rugby satisfies our national need for external recognition and endorsement. In football we're a peripheral figure in a global economic, sporting and social phenomenon. Irish football ticks none of the boxes in today's generation's must have list. If we were one of six only countries allowed to compete in an annual European Championships we'd get more coverage, especially when we're likely to win it!
As Owls Fan says, who cares? I see following the BIG as a higher calling.
62 pages of repetition suggest some must care. God knows why.
It's a debate that, like most, contains a lot of nuance. There are plenty that have you believe a simple doctrine of oval ball good, round (i.e., normal!) ball bad. It's not that simple and most of my rants on this thread have been in that context.
I don't think Owls Fan was saying it's not an issue, just that for him following Ireland in football is a non-negotiable, through sickness and health type thing. That's how it is for me.
If the thread title was "rugby now more successful than soccer" the thread would have died after one page, maybe coming to life for a few days after we beat Estonia!
I wasn't being sarcastic when I said 'God knows why', just in case you took it that way. For me it is a bit of a non issue, certainly in the context of the thread title, which is way too vague. When broken down I think it's fairly obvious which is more popular, case by case, but there are just too many variables to bother coming to a definitive conclusion. I'll start with your one as an obvious example of which is more popular in terms of widespread interest in Ireland:
Man Utd, Liverpool, etc > Munster, Leinster, etc
Man Utd, Liverpool, etc > International Rugby
International Rugby > Dundalk, Bohs, etc
Munster, Leinster, etc > Dundalk, Bohs, etc
6 Nations > Your average soccer qualifier
Ireland in the Soccer World Cup > Ireland in the Rugby World Cup
Rugby test > Soccer friendly
Champions League > European Rugby Champions Cup
BOD > Robbie Keane
Roy Keane > Humanity
Last edited by DeLorean; 17/02/2015 at 11:35 AM.
Football has a big popularity of course, I'd say a major issue is that much or most of the income earned from that popularity does not go back to the local game, attendance of epl games is one obvious issue but another is income in the form of subscription sport income goes directly to the EPL after Sky takes it cut. That's about EUR300m in a year in total in Irish Sky subscriptions alone.
The GAA and IRFU earn a much higher proportion of income paid by the audience of their sport, both with attendance and tv subscription income than Irish football does.
One thing that has changed relatively recently was that the vat income from Irish sky subs will no longer go to the UK exchequer, from 2015 it's estimated by the bean counters that by then it will be worth about Eur100m to the irish state.
Sports bodies should certainly demand their rights for their slice of that and get out of the cap in hand mentality.
You're on the money Stutts. Personally, I get more excited atm by rugby than international football which actually saddens me
Last edited by gastric; 18/02/2015 at 2:07 AM.
Glory hunters sadden me too
Foreign teams - God knows why is right!!!
I'll always cheer for Ireland no matter what the sport and take great pleasure in the rugby team doing well but the coverage it gets is a bit much and gets on my wick a bit. There were 5 pages in the IT yesterday but the Frampton fight, a defending world champion got 2 wee columns in the inside back page. The guy is a phenomenal and truly world class Irish sportsman but the elitist media are barely aware of him.
https://ewanmackenna.wordpress.com/2...n-think-again/
Ewan McKenna in the Sunday Business post
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
---
New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
LOI section on balls.ie - http://balls.ie/league-of-ireland/
Interesting to hear that comment about the media directly from a journalist. The different media attitudes towards each code have been oft complained about here.
The article reflects what I instinctively believed on many fronts and the advertising guff sbout "rugby country" has always driven me mental. I understand Diageo will only use Carlsberg as its soccer brand, even in Ireland where Guinness will be popular among soccer fans
However, I think it's unfair to refer to Neil Francis' comments. Most of my rugby mates were livid with how he made his point. It tilts the article in a direction that it didn't need to go in.
There's quite a bitter tone to the article which doesn't do it any favours either.
I also have some sympathy for my rugby mate who has no truck with the South East Dublin privileged rugby scene or those who use a home test as a proxy for Horse Show Week, when he says sports can't choose their followers. Ok, so rugby's heartland is the middle class but it's very possible to love the game without self identifying with the "scene".
I was at home for my own (fee paying rugby playing) school reunion at the weekend. Several of the keener rugby fans among the attendees were very disillusioned at how the AIL clubs are neglected under the current structures.
Part of me feels that rugby today is like U2 in the 80s: liked by many who don't like much other music. Ok, that probably just highlights me as a music snob / sports snob!
I'd also take issue with the skill level. A good old agricultural hoof up the pitch seems pretty common in all sports other than footy, and in my opinion the touch and spatial awareness required in footy is what makes it stand out. In rugby if you receive the ball you can usually just take the hit and recycle if you can't find an out ball. In rugby when you receive the ball you almost always know you can't be tackled from behind you. There'd be no chance of a guy playing football professionally who only took up the sport after school (John Hayes). The IRFU is actively seeking athletes from other sports. In football it'd be too late for these guys.
This isn't a criticism, but it's perspective which seems to be lost in the hysteria.
If only football required being able to beat our neighbouring countries to reach the same adulation.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 02/03/2015 at 4:53 PM.
Yes good article and also the comments from Stutts. The 6 (once 5) Nations Championship is a great product and I have to say I have greatly enjoyed it over the years even though I am not a rugby fan as such. I have never gone to see Leinster play and have perhaps been to 5 internationals in my life, which includes the one yesterday where a friend over from the UK brought me a ticket. What struck me about the supporters is the large absence of colour, although it was a very cold day so green tops would not be much in evidence. Flags were provided though for the supports. The fans were mostly middle-aged but when I go to football games many are in their twenties. What really irritates me is this "shhhssssish" when an opponent is about to take a kick at goal. For God's sake, he trying to score against your team - try and put him off not this "oh are we wonderfully sporting fans" "shsssssish". It is I believe an attempt to show how different they are from the neanderthals who support football. It always reminds me of the rugby fan interviewed by RTE on the way back from the cancelled game in Paris who said "Imagine what would have happened if it was a soccer match!!!" (i.e. we fans would have rioted).
I believe the writer is correct that rugby is primarily a sport of the middle classes and I have no issue with that nor do I think football should be worried about rugby. I went for a drink with my friend in a pub away from the ground in what one may term a working class area and there wasn't one rugby colour being worn. I believe football and the GAA will always be the people's sport. Does anyone think that if the rugby team won the world cup that the crowds welcoming the team back would approach the numbers who welcomed back an Irish football team which made the quarter-finals of the football world cup. It is making in-roads ok but not in the football or GAA heartlands and a successful football team would soon relegate them back to a clear third place.
In the meantime, it was great to beat England (can't get quite get used to the idea of being surrounded by the other team's supporters) and to hear the chariot being shouted down (unsporting??) and really looking forward to the Welsh game.
p.s. I believe UEFA/FIFA think along the same lines as that TV rugby supporter I mentioned earlier. Lots of playbacks of the crucial moments, including nasty fouls, on the big screens. None for those of us who attend football games? Will we riot ? Does the GAA also exclude them at game?
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
The silence is to put them off. Most kickers would rather a bit of noise in the background than dead silence.What really irritates me is this "shhhssssish" when an opponent is about to take a kick at goal. For God's sake, he trying to score against your team - try and put him off not this "oh are we wonderfully sporting fans" "shsssssish".
I think the crowds would be huge if we won the RWC!
That's neither here nor there though. I know rugby fans who root against Irish and other football. I know of no football fans who'd do the same in reverse. As Tets is alive to, there is a tendency for rugby to pat itself on the back by comparing the best of its code to the worst of football's. The best of anything versus the worst of anything will always be an unfair comparison.
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