QuoteThe Northern half would be weaker at the start, but with relegations, and rejorganising of the groups that would happen every few years as a result, they'd soon balance out.
i think if you split the first devision in half you are left with two very weak leagues!
The Northern half would be weaker at the start, but with relegations, and rejorganising of the groups that would happen every few years as a result, they'd soon balance out.
we might get promoted out of it tho!
I think the regionalised first division i the worst league reformatting idea yet, and thats saying something because there has been some stinkers.
Imagine Sligo Rovers for example trying to flog season tickets when there opening fixtures read:
Salthill (H)
Tullamore (A)
Castlebar (H)
Mervue (A)
Monaghan (H)
etc.
Splits aren't the answer. 2 top leagues is plenty for Ireland.
i think everything woubd be fne if it went back to a 12 team premier with two up and two down every season with no playoffs. Keep things simple! mabye temth could play third in a playoff?
As usual, there are problems with top flight football in Ireland, and people discuss tinkering with the divisions, number of teams, how many games are played, the days of games, the colour of ref jerseys, etc. and genuinely believe that this will change things.
As I see it, there are two major problems in the League of Ireland: Crisis Management & False Expectation.
Crisis Management is the one where all teams say "What can we do?" and simply go from fighting one fire to the next, keeping things afloat. What the teams are doing is necessary to stay alive. All that the crisis management does is treat symptoms. Unfortunately there is no-one who is involved able to stand back a yard and say "What is the cause of these crises, what might be a cure?" The FAI cannot afford to stand back because they will be eaten alive by the clubs. Similarly if they do anything more than tinker, they will be eaten alive by the clubs. But every club, barring maybe a few, UCD, Wexford, perhaps some more, is basically slipping in and out of crisis all the time for various different reasons. No-one is asking why, nor is anyone researching a cure.
False Expectation is possibly one of the causes. There are three layers of false expectation.
Firstly the expectation from fans that this is / should be a major European league. It isn't. As Dahamsta rightly said it is a sh!tty little 4m strong country, and to expand, filled with begrudgers of the Greener Grass variety, who have become used to the idea of plenty. There is no way the entire Ireland, even if supported to capacity, can afford Cristiano Ronaldo, so people should realise that it won't be like watching Real Madrid. THe expectation built by Sky that you can sit on your hole and be told how good a 0-0 draw between two sides you should never have heard of is better than a game where you are deprived of the option to switch to Friends if it is really dull is not appealling. This needs examination in a famously "Sports Mad"TM country. People have to come to terms with the idea that it should always be glamour - even big time football often is not. And the genuine fans who go to games at whatever level, also have to come to terms with the idea that some people are fans of whatever entertains them, not whatever costs time and emotional investment. Then we can get on with things and leave sports entertainment junkies to Sky, and get realistic about how "Sports Mad"TM Ireland really is.
Secondly, the false expectation that one success shall beget another on the part of the clubs. There is a parable in some old novel about the man who prepared a feast on the expectation of plenty, but suffered on his presumption, or whatever it was. At the moment, three or four Irish clubs are budgetting each season for winning prize / TV money, expecting that the gates will be bigger than last year, that there will be a clear increase in turnover / revenue, maybe not this year, but "soon". Drogheda came very close to big puddles when they initially committed big sums on the expectation of success. They were lucky, odd as it may sound. Had they not won the FAI Cup that time they could have been rightly shanked. Bohs have been sailing very close to the wind, Tom Coughlan too. There is not money to be made in football - every avenue towards prize money has 22 clubs chasing it every year in Ireland. One bad game at the wrong time, an incorrect red card, a bad night weather wise - any of these can gut a team's season on the current model.
Finally, possinbly most insidious of all, the belief that there is a magic bullet cure - move to the Summer / 10 team division / Friday night football / Tom the Gom in a Kaftan. There will be about 22 different strategies needed at a local level, plus another few at a national level, all of them integrated - something we don't really do in Ireland.
GAH!
Last edited by Bluebeard; 29/09/2009 at 9:50 PM.
That question was less stupid, though you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
Help me, Arthur Murphy, you're my only hope!
Originally Posted by Dodge
Great post Mr Beard.
I think one of the big consequences of the false expectations for the league is that every revamp and attempt to improve things is always driven by a minority of clubs at the top rather than taking a holistic approach to the league. Indeed the growth and success of the senior game here is also tied to that of the other levels of the sport. To really see things improve not only do the individual clubs have to get their act together, but our governing body needs to come up with a plan to make all levels of the game work together properly.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
Agree 100%.
You get periodic nonsense about "sustainability" from clubs, but when it comes down to it, they are against putting structures in place.
Galway United has gone from a club that was very successful at underage level, p1ssing on all the other local clubs basically (during the time period I knew of them), to having no structure at all. The mandatory u-20 side is a joke. Beaten 10-0 recently. I'm not angry at the team... just the attitude towards the team.
It angers me looking back at old programmes, reading the articles within reporting on how well they were doing.
Last edited by gufcfan; 29/09/2009 at 6:12 PM.
Indeed. Ireland's size actually makes - or should make - the process of professionalising Irish football very easy.
- The clubs need to stop faffing about with sheepskin-wearing hobbyhorse directors that are in it for backslaps, not booty. Football clubs aren't E Class Mercs or tasteless oversized mansions, they're businesses with customers and employees. Profit should be the prize, not trophies. If it's working, one begets the other.
- The FAI needs to stop shuffling deckchairs around, step back and realise it's just not working, and simplify, simplify, simplify. We're a simple country with simple people driven by simple needs. Do a survey if you want to but leave the consultation at the door, make it multiple choice and short with it. Come back with a plan in 30 days or less.
- The fans need to stop bitching and start supporting. Irish fans are worse than the brits for getting distracted by the idiocy and stupidity of Irish football, constantly criticising with next-to-zero zero constructive commentary and action. Stop talking about community-owned clubs, for example, either go out and do it or shut the hell up.
- The media needs to read the bit above about the fans, plus they need to get behind Irish football and stop acting like a bog standard barstooler brit-club fans. Have a bit of pride in your country ffs.
- To follow up on Bluebeard's point, everyone needs to get their head out of the clouds and accept that while Irish football can be professional, and successful, those involved need to have simple tastes like the rest of us. We need to accept and embrace that we're essentially a feeder for foreign clubs, and make the most of it.
Oh and finally, there's this new thing called Mergers and Acquisitions, you might've heard of it...
adam
Of course the status quo is best if a proper plan is put in place to ensure the future of all clubs, only threw the idea out because it tends to be the small rural town clubs (Kilkenny, Cobh) that are going under. In the long-term though, the A Championship clubs will have to be sorted out, because while they're happy with the format for now, I doubt they'll put up with still playing Pats B and Harps B in 10 years time.
The main reason is the high wages being dished out. Surely everybody knows this?
Good article though. I would agree with most of what you are saying.
The point made by Dahamsta about the Media is spot on also. There is no publicity worth talking about in the national media.
I presume the idea is that more teams will join and the B teams will make up a smaller and smaller proportion of the teams in it. It's gone from 3 teams last year to 6 this year. Long term, there might be enough teams that there'd be 4 groups of eight with only 3 B teams in each and it'd be more of a normal league. The key to getting more teams in is to keep costs down of course.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
When the hell did this thread start making sense?
Been talking about the set up of the league for a long time, no one can seem to agree. Many would be in favour of an 18 team league but I don't think it would work.
I would go with 2 leagues of 12, each team play each other 3 times (4 times is a disaster especially if the same clubs meet in cup competition also).
Add in 2 out of Cobh, Carlow, Tralee, Salthill, Castlebar or Tullamore into the 1st Division promoting Shels and UCD for example.
I think a much more important structure is one that will look at things from an underage perspective.
A Reserve league can work, although, I don't see why you would need an entirely new squad for it. Surely if you have a panel of 22/23 in your first team and the same for your Under 20 (or Under 21) then the players not getting a game that weekend in either of those teams can get a game in the reserves, thus giving the majority of players at your club a match to play in each weekend.
We need an under 18/19 and under 20/21 league also, they may be costly in terms of extra travel but, in the future I think it can benefit the club greatly.
Splitting the under 20 league into 4 regions is crazy, the players get a handful of games over the course of a few months and they are out the door and back to their junior clubs. We need more games for the underage sides so splitting the clubs into 2 regions would make much more sense with 2 groups of 12 and each team plays each other twice. That's 24 games for the season, much more beneficial to clubs and players.
The Donegal league registrations close on 31st October and we have 12 of our Under 20's looking to leave for their Junior clubs (understandably) leaving us in danger of not fielding in our remaining 3 games. We struggled to field against Sligo at the weekend as 6 have already left. The main reason for leaving is the lack of games, I don't blame the lads one bit, it's the League that needs to sort this out.
Sorry for length of post but the truth is, that was the scaled down version
Wages and turnover. Quite simply the key. Our clubs as businesses entities are simply not turning over enough money to justify a full time set up. The sums do not add up. No club in Ireland can consistently earn the 2m plus a year it would need to sustain a full time club. Until both sides of that problme is addressed it will continue to be boom
wwhy cant clubs sustain full time players just if clubs kept too the 65% rule there is no reason why clubs can not have full time players on 400-500 a week??
Asking a player to commit to a full time career on 400-500 a week is simply not attractive, when a part time club could also offer the same gross, with more time off and the chance of having a career and income away from football. For a player, really need to earn at least 40k pa to justify full time , not that long ago a lot of players were earning close on 100k pa.
Shamrock Rovers will be the best supported club this season, and they only expect to turnover 1.3m, and have no intention of going full time next season. In their case, if 65% goes on players wages, meaning around 850k gross for players wages, or 17k per week, between 25 pros average weekly wage of 680 gross per week - only a fraction of what people were earning in some clubs a little over 12 months ago.
I think you are wrong ther in your estimation of what a full time professional should earn. A full time professional team could be run on as little as 12k. the money that was flying around the league a couple of seasons ago is gone. clubs are aware of this and the players wages will decrease further next season due to this. Players have the right to refuse whats on offer or to seek alternative employment and try part time but the majority of players prefer full time if they had the choice.
Provided the clubs are run properly behind the scenes full time football shouldn't be a problem
Long Live King Kenny
Um, how do you run a full time professional team on 12k? Is it a Subbuteo team?
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