Fenlon advocates All Ireland League

[belfastred]

Is there a link anywhere to Fenlon's comments?

[dcfcsteve]

I've told you why the "bigger market" argument doesn't hold. Bohs' market is Phibsboro/North Dublin, which won't get bigger in an AIL. But way to ignore whatever parts of my post suit you.

Where is Linfield's market then - South Belfast ?

Why do clubs like Sporting Lisbon, Benfica and Porto have tens of thousands of fans in Madeira - an island hundreds of miles away from mainland Portugal ?

Why are Celtic and Rangers more popular in Inverness than Inverness Caldeonian Thistle are ?

Even now it's possible to find second and third generation fans of LOI clubs who were born and bred in places that, under your rules, their clubs shouldn't consider their 'market'. Back in the early days of City's return to senior football it was possible to find people in places like Dublin with no connection to Derry who would say they'd support or keep an eye out for the club, as they got caught-up in the whole hype and glamour.

A market is wherever a club can get support from. Clubs will obviously have a heartland - which in Bohs' case would be North Dublin - but that isn't an exclusive market. My kids will be City fans, even though it's highly likely they won't be born in Derry.

Do you honestly believe that every one of the 4,000 Steau suppoorters at the RDS last week was from one narrow part of Bucharest ? I'd hazard a guess a decent number of the younger ones weren't even born in Romania.

[pineapple stu]

So you think an AIL will directly cause Bohs fan clubs to spring up in the North?

belfastred - Fenlon's comments are here

[BohDiddley]

So you think an AIL will directly cause Bohs fan clubs to spring up in the North?

belfastred - Fenlon's comments are here

Probably not. But we would be playing bigger clubs who would bring bigger away support than some of the currently marginal Premier Div clubs. And you never know, there might be some Linfield etc. fans living in Dublin. Isn't there a Rangers supporters' club here?

[pineapple stu]

Ah. So now this is about the extra 100 or so fans Cliftonville might bring once - maybe twice - a year over what Bray or Galway bring? So that's what - E2k a year? And this amount will help the league improve how, exactly?

Have you been watching the Setanta Cup at all the last three years?

[BohDiddley]

Have you been watching the Setanta Cup at all the last three years?

I don't think the Setanta Cup is entirely relevant. It has been effectively boycotted by RTE, there have been well-aired problems with fixture schedules, and this year it was uncertain whether it would run and when it did it was with a bizarrely split season and much-reduced prize money. So I wouldn't be holding it up as a model, no.

[belfastred]

Ah. So now this is about the extra 100 or so fans Cliftonville might bring once - maybe twice - a year over what Bray or Galway bring? So that's what - E2k a year? And this amount will help the league improve how, exactly?

Have you been watching the Setanta Cup at all the last three years?

To be fair the Setanta Cup is yet another Cup competition in an already busy season

An AIL would be the main focal point of the season and I'm sure would attract bigger crowds.

[pineapple stu]

I'm sure would attract bigger crowds.

Bigger crowds than the Setanta or bigger crowds than the LoI/IL?

I agree with you on the former, not on the latter.

BD - want to address my point as to how an extra E2k gate receipts a year will help push the league's clubs on in any significant manner?

[Mr A]

An LOI with Linfield and Glentoran in it (because that's what it boils down to) would require the mother of all marketing campaigns to convince people that it was appreciably bigger and better than the current LOI.

The AIL may have an 'unstoppable logic' to it, but one that pales into insignificance with the responsibility to have properly run football clubs. If anything, the impression from many of the comments is that the AIL would be a way of not having to run the clubs properly.

[BohDiddley]

BD - want to address my point as to how an extra E2k gate receipts a year will help push the league's clubs on in any significant manner?

Not really, as I think it's a rather facile observation. I'll take the 2k though as a handy starter bonus, before anything else is achieved, even if it is a deliberately conservative estimate.
Look, Fenlon is saying that people should go into a room, sit down and talk this through. Are you seriously suggesting that someone should go in, say something negative about Cliftonville bringing 100 more fans to a game, and then close the discussion?

[pineapple stu]

A superb example of short-sightedness there BD, indicative of the general P1 AIL camp (as opposed to an AIL in general) thanks for that. When you take off that E2k the extra costs of going to Cliftonville over going to Bray, you're probably at a loss.

I keep repeating this though - I've no problems with an AIL in principle, but the people who are pushing it at present (and in the recent past) are absolutely the wrong people to have running it.

[osarusan]

I keep repeating this though - I've no problems with an AIL in principle, but the people who are pushing it at present (and in the recent past) are absolutely the wrong people to have running it.

I don't think anybody is pushing it at present though, are they?

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, I meant Fenlon (and presumably Bohs, behind the scenes).

Before that, obviously P1 weren't alone in pushing it.

[BohDiddley]

I keep repeating this though - I've no problems with an AIL in principle, but the people who are pushing it at present (and in the recent past) are absolutely the wrong people to have running it.

You say that, but you are going out of your way to select the most negative scenarios, and hunting obstacles that will protect the current setup.
Would it not be fair to say that you are representing the LoI rump -- which I am sure is mirrored in the IL -- that simply doesn't want this to happen because in all likelihood it will impact on their own club?

[pineapple stu]

It would not be fair to say so, as it contradicts directly with the posts I have made many times in this thread, which you continue to ignore.

I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth either, thanks.

[dcfcsteve]

So you think an AIL will directly cause Bohs fan clubs to spring up in the North?

Your smiley face says it all about the seriousness of that riposte.

Conversely - assuming it's run properly (as everyone agrees that there's no point doing an AIL unless it is) do you honestly believe that increased media exposure, TV coverage etc (as that's what would result from a new league done properly) wouldn't add any fans to clubs ?

Do you honestly think Bohs wouldn't be able to attract any fans in South Dublin, West Dublin, Louth, Meath etc, because they are locked in some sort of supporters 'market' that makes them repellant to securing new support outside of North Dublin (fans of other clubs may agree with that ) ? There are doubtless Bohs fans on here already who don't live in their North Dublin 'market'.

If you agree that a properly run, well-promoted AIL - again, everyone agrees there'd be no point doing it otherwise - would add at least SOME fans to clubs, then the question is really all about how many, not if. And that's what is moot. How many fields and big animals were first promised to early man if he agreed to migrate from his desert over the big hill into the unknown ? We'll never know. But it was probably all based on a calculation that what lay over the hill was better than what he currently had - even if he couldn't quantify exactly how much better.

[dcfcsteve]

I keep repeating this though - I've no problems with an AIL in principle, but the people who are pushing it at present (and in the recent past) are absolutely the wrong people to have running it.

Who are the right people to run an AIL then ? The two associations on the island, who have sat back for decades whilst their individual leagues declined and failed to intervene in any way ?

Out of curiousity - now that Jim Roddy is gone, what's your beef with Platinum One ? The Real Madrid game showed that they have a good standing within the game and can deliver an attractive event. I didn't see many other people attempting to coax one of the world's most glamorous clubs to play an LOI side.

[osarusan]

The Real Madrid game showed that they have a good standing within the game and can deliver an attractive event. I didn't see many other people attempting to coax one of the world's most glamorous clubs to play an LOI side.

It was a well-run event no doubt, but Real were already in Ireland and were looking for a game, so the idea that P1 "coaxed" them is wrong.

[passinginterest]

It was a well-run event no doubt, but Real were already in Ireland and were looking for a game, so the idea that P1 "coaxed" them is wrong.

As much as I dislike Platinum One I think you have that a little bit wrong. Platinum One actually organised most of Madrid's pre season programme, including the hotels and training facilities, they stayed in Carton House and came to Ireland solely as a result of Platinum One's input.

I still wouldn't want them running the league though. I find myself agreeing with the Pineapple more than anyone else on this thread.

[pineapple stu]

The one other thing to note is that while P1 deserve fair dues for bringing Madrid to Ireland, once that was done, the event ran itself. Different thing entirely promoting Sligo v Cliftonville.