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Thread: Mickey Collins - Again

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    Reserves Celdrog's Avatar
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    Mickey Collins - Again

    This won't go away
    http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sport

    DERRY CITY appear set to challenge the League of Ireland Disciplinary Committee in relation to the involvement of an alleged "illegal player" following their defeat by Dundak at Oriel Park on July 3rd last.
    And should the "Candy Stripes" fail to get any satisfaction from the F.A.I., then it's possible that the Brandywell club could go to the Courts having discovered what Derry believe is a clear-cut discrepancy and a breach of the rules.

    Former Portadown and Newry City central midfielder, Michael Collins, played a leading role in Dundalk's 1-0 victory, the Belfast man's competitive debut for the "Lilywhites," however, it has since come to light that Collins had been sent off in the company of Gavin Whelan during a pre-season game against Drogheda United.

    As a result of that dismissal, Collins would be expected to serve an automatic one-match ban but because of registration difficulties, the player could not field for Dundalk until the opening of the July Transfer Window.

    And that being the case, the first match he would be entitled to play in was the July 3rd meeting against Derry. However, the suspension must also come into play and as the player did not play in a competitive game for Sean Connor's side until the Transfer Window opened, the suspension should have been served in his club's game against the Brandywell side.

    While no-one at the Brandywell was prepared to comment on my findings, sources insist that Derry have already set wheels in motion within the FAI's Disciplinary Committee who, it is understood, are currently investigating the matter.

    However, it should also be pointed out that Collins' name did not appear in the weekly suspension list at that time, sent to the Press by the Disciplinary Committee, therefore, Dundalk opted to use the player as they will claim they did not receive notification.

    Should Derry's appeal succeed, then it's possible that the League of Ireland may overturn the result with the "Candy Stripes" receiving the three points if the alleged breach of the rules has been proven.
    Last edited by Celdrog; 21/07/2009 at 6:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celdrog View Post
    This won't go away
    http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sport

    DERRY CITY appear set to challenge the League of Ireland Disciplinary Committee in relation to the involvement of an alleged "illegal player" following their defeat by Dundak at Oriel Park on July 3rd last.
    And should the "Candy Stripes" fail to get any satisfaction from the F.A.I., then it's possible that the Brandywell club could go to the Courts having discovered what Derry believe is a clear-cut discrepancy and a breach of the rules.

    Former Portadown and Newry City central midfielder, Michael Collins, played a leading role in Dundalk's 1-0 victory, the Belfast man's competitive debut for the "Lilywhites," however, it has since come to light that Collins had been sent off in the company of Gavin Whelan during a pre-season game against Drogheda United.

    As a result of that dismissal, Collins would be expected to serve an automatic one-match ban but because of registration difficulties, the player could not field for Dundalk until the opening of the July Transfer Window.

    And that being the case, the first match he would be entitled to play in was the July 3rd meeting against Derry. However, the suspension must also come into play and as the player did not play in a competitive game for Sean Connor's side until the Transfer Window opened, the suspension should have been served in his club's game against the Brandywell side.

    While no-one at the Brandywell was prepared to comment on my findings, sources insist that Derry have already set wheels in motion within the FAI's Disciplinary Committee who, it is understood, are currently investigating the matter.

    However, it should also be pointed out that Collins' name did not appear in the weekly suspension list at that time, sent to the Press by the Disciplinary Committee, therefore, Dundalk opted to use the player as they will claim they did not receive notification.

    Should Derry's appeal succeed, then it's possible that the League of Ireland may overturn the result with the "Candy Stripes" receiving the three points if the alleged breach of the rules has been proven.

    http://www.derryjournal.com/derry-sport
    didnt Bohs argue this when McGuiness (i think) was suspended, we didnt receive notification or received conflicting advice and he played against Shels. Oily Burn challenged it. But in the same season Hargan (i think?) played for Derry when suspended and they received no notice and were exonerated of blame.

    Dont like what Derry are doing, more league-bashing ahoy, but if they have a case then they have a case.

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    Derry clutching at straws here it would appear, if Dundalk weren't told he was suspended then he was allowed to play.

    Especially when you consider the strange affair of the broken Derry fax machine as precedent.
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    Football hure MariborKev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkStu View Post
    Dont like what Derry are doing, more league-bashing ahoy, but if they have a case then they have a case.
    Dunno,

    As you Bohs fans like to say, pure minnowism in my view.
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    Yeah, notification isn't necessary to enforce a suspension, the club is supposed to keep track of it themselves. Think it's pretty pathetic to be carping about a red card in pre-season though. They shouldn't incur a suspension anyway, except on recommendation from the referee, IMO.
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    Thats gas, I remember Derry fans having a pop at Ollie over his chiqanery with the rulebook at NLU meeting years ago and now they the are taking steps that the rulebook maestro himself woulda been proud off in his day!

    bhs

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackholesun View Post
    Thats gas, I remember Derry fans having a pop at Ollie over his chiqanery with the rulebook at NLU meeting years ago and now they the are taking steps that the rulebook maestro himself woulda been proud off in his day!

    bhs
    Is it the same people? No.

    Completely spurious comparison.
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    Seeing as Collins was not registered with Dundalk, and hence not under the FAIs jurisdiction I think they would have a hard time making it stick!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridan View Post
    Think it's pretty pathetic to be carping about a red card in pre-season though.

    Yeah but Gavin Whelan for us got sent off in the same match and had to serve a suspension!!

    Think its harsh on craptown myself seen as they werent officially notified of any suspension - but i dont know the rules on that......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
    Yeah but Gavin Whelan for us got sent off in the same match and had to serve a suspension!!

    Think its harsh on craptown myself seen as they werent officially notified of any suspension - but i dont know the rules on that......
    Whelan was registered with the FAI...

    Is it really that hard for you lot accept Collins wasn't registered??
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    Completely stupid. And what are Derry going to get out of this if it's true? They'll never get a replay and I doubt the Lilywhites will be docked points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maribor View Post
    Dunno,

    As you Bohs fans like to say, pure minnowism in my view.
    as i said, i dont like it or agree with it but its your clubs prerogative to chase this if they think they have a case so for me to accuse Derry of minnowism is not going to make a blind bit of difference.

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    FORMERLY: City till I Die Aaron's Avatar
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    I'd be embarrassed if we pursued this, especially given our pathetic performance in said match

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    Seasoned Pro Réiteoir's Avatar
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    As I said in the other thread on this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Réiteoir View Post
    Had a quick look at what the English FA say in these situations - couldn't find anything for Non-Contract Players - so I assume they come under the same umbrella as any other player.

    A player who is dismissed from the Field of Play for Violent Conduct, Serious Foul Play or spitting at an opponent or any other person whether he has previously been cautioned in the match or not, will be suspended automatically from all domestic League, League Cup, FA Challenge Cup and Trophy matches and Friendly matches commencing on the 14th day following the match in which he was sent off and until such time as his Club’s recognised Senior Team has completed three matches in approved Competitions during the period covered by its opening match in the Football Conference (North and South Divisions) / Isthmian / Northern Premier / Southern League and ending with the final match in which the Club is playing in a domestic Competition organised by The Football Association, the Football Conference (North and South Divisions) / Isthmian / Northern Premier / Southern League or matches concerning a Club’s nominated County Senior Cup Competition plus a fine of £40.
    So if they apply those rules - then any suspension would have been served with the first three League games Dundalk played this season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    Derry clutching at straws here it would appear, if Dundalk weren't told he was suspended then he was allowed to play.
    Quoting from the rulebook? Read it again.

    I agree with the sentiment of the post though, its not going to win us many friends in Abbotstown or Dundalk, particularly if it was the FAI that dropped the ball.

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    The journo here seems to be indulging in some wishful thinking speculation.

    Some facts that may help clarify the position:
    1. Michael Collins was not under FAI jurisdiction when playing in this pre-season match against Drogheda.
    2. Gavin Whelan, who was sent off in the same match did not serve an automatic next match ban. The game took place on 24 February, and following an FAI disciplinary meeting his two match suspension and €50 fine was announced on 25 March. This suspension was effective for Drogheda's league matches on 3 April and 7 April.
    3. Dundalk FC made enquiries from FAI regarding a possible suspension pending for Michael Collins, prior to his ITC clearance in July. While I am unaware of the specifics of the response it is clear that no suspension applied for Collins at that stage.
    4. My understanding is that it was within the remit of the IFA to deal with any disciplinary issue that arose as a consequence of this sending-off. If any sanction were to apply from the IFA, this would have to be notified to the player and the FAI.
    5. In this case the ultimate responsibility would rest with the FAI to notify the club. As the author of this "article" has already noted Michael Collins was not on any FAI suspension list.
    While it is clear that there is no substance in the suggestion that Collins was "illegal" against Derry, I would be very surprised if Derry City were actually persuing this avenue at all. Apart from being a lost cause, it would show the club in a very poor light


    Quote Originally Posted by Celdrog View Post
    As a result of that dismissal, Collins would be expected to serve an automatic one-match ban but


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    While it is clear that there is no substance in the suggestion that Collins was "illegal" against Derry, I would be very surprised if Derry City were actually persuing this avenue at all. Apart from being a lost cause, it would show the club in a very poor light
    I agree it shows us in a very poor light, but I would say the journalist in question is right that we are pursuing it.

    Another sign of Kenny's slide towards Keeganesque behaviour IMHO.
    Last edited by MariborKev; 21/07/2009 at 11:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    The journo here seems to be indulging in some wishful thinking speculation.



    Some facts that may help clarify the position:
    1. Michael Collins was not under FAI jurisdiction when playing in this pre-season match against Drogheda.
    2. Gavin Whelan, who was sent off in the same match did not serve an automatic next match ban. The game took place on 24 February, and following an FAI disciplinary meeting his two match suspension and €50 fine was announced on 25 March. This suspension was effective for Drogheda's league matches on 3 April and 7 April.
    3. Dundalk FC made enquiries from FAI regarding a possible suspension pending for Michael Collins, prior to his ITC clearance in July. While I am unaware of the specifics of the response it is clear that no suspension applied for Collins at that stage.
    4. My understanding is that it was within the remit of the IFA to deal with any disciplinary issue that arose as a consequence of this sending-off. If any sanction were to apply from the IFA, this would have to be notified to the player and the FAI.
    5. In this case the ultimate responsibility would rest with the FAI to notify the club. As the author of this "article" has already noted Michael Collins was not on any FAI suspension list.
    While it is clear that there is no substance in the suggestion that Collins was "illegal" against Derry, I would be very surprised if Derry City were actually persuing this avenue at all. Apart from being a lost cause, it would show the club in a very poor light

    Gavin Whelan was suspended for a match, think it was the Drogs second game of the season!You dont serve a suspension during pre season, it goes on to the league so. I would also like to point out that it does really sound liek SOUR GRAPES to me!

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    Gavin Whelan was under FAI jurisdiction at the time so he got the ban.
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    Tell me this, when Zidane was sent off in the World Cup final how many League of Ireland matches did the FAI suspend him for?

    The simple fact is Collins was not under the jusidiction of the FAI, therefore they had no powers or right to suspend him. End of!!

    I can't believe some are talking about notifications. There was nothing that Dundalk needed to be notified of.

    However, if Derry want the 3 points they can have them. We'll sit back and let Bohs, Rovers and Cork get upset about it.
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