French riots

**Green Tribe** · 08/11/2005, 11:44 PM

Shocking again tonight there has been trouble and it's ridiculous and typical of the French to do very little to resolve the issues etc - is this the 13th night of trouble?

My friend will be travelling to Paris with her parents in 2 weeks, and is very worried, I told her it should be ok by then, just see how it is over the next few days/week. She is worried as some foreigners have been attacked.

**dcfcsteve** · 09/11/2005, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Green Tribe

Shocking again tonight there has been trouble and it's ridiculous and typical of the French to do very little to resolve the issues etc - is this the 13th night of trouble?

My friend will be travelling to Paris with her parents in 2 weeks, and is very worried, I told her it should be ok by then, just see how it is over the next few days/week. She is worried as some foreigners have been attacked.

Bit of a reality check required by your friend to be fair GT. Unless she's in the very outer-suburbs concerned, she'll be right as rain.

It'd be like visiting central Dublin, and being worried cause there was some trouble in Leixlip or Howth.....

I'd be surprised if it's stil ongoing in 2 weeks time anyway. Heads will have rolled by then if it is...

**Green Tribe** · 09/11/2005, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Bit of a reality check required by your friend to be fair GT. Unless she's in the very outer-suburbs concerned, she'll be right as rain.

It'd be like visiting central Dublin, and being worried cause there was some trouble in Leixlip or Howth.....

I'd be surprised if it's stil ongoing in 2 weeks time anyway. Heads will have rolled by then if it is...

I know, I've told her that

Sometimes I just think she likes to hear the sound of her own voice. Think she is worried more so because a few tourists from her country were attacked by rioters, never heard this myself mind.

**Dodge** · 09/11/2005, 12:54 AM

On the other hand if it still going on in two weeks, expect it to spread out from the areas affected at the minute

**Condex** · 09/11/2005, 8:34 PM

This is what happens when you let too immigrants into your country who are too
different culturally from the native people, they tend to congregate in urban ghettos. Can see lots of trouble ahead especially with miltant Islam causing trouble everywhere you look!!

**Condex** · 09/11/2005, 8:41 PM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

To clarify Poor Student - such a dynamic doesn't have to be a bad thing. The Irish have been creating enclaves in Britain and the US for centuries. Some ethnic eclaves can make huge contributions towards areas - particualrly areas that were losing their vitality, facilities etc.

Where exactly are these Irish enclaves you see in London/Britain, after one/two generations most of the Irish have integrated. This won't happen in places like
Bradford, Leicester because they are too cultually different and have not integrated.

**Dodge** · 09/11/2005, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

This is what happens when you let too immigrants into your country who are too
different culturally from the native people, they tend to congregate in urban ghettos. Can see lots of trouble ahead especially with miltant Islam causing trouble everywhere you look!!

A sensible thread up until know. read all the posts here, then read a cpouple of newspapers. Then get a clue....

**Condex** · 09/11/2005, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

A sensible thread up until know. read all the posts here, then read a cpouple of newspapers. Then get a clue....

Oh! God how stupid of me, I should have been reading the Guardian and the Independent!!

**dcfcsteve** · 10/11/2005, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

Where exactly are these Irish enclaves you see in London/Britain, after one/two generations most of the Irish have integrated. This won't happen in places like
Bradford, Leicester because they are too cultually different and have not integrated.

If you'd actually been reading previous messages, rather than the latest edition of 'Hitler Youth Weekly', you might have seen that the above has already been mentioned/covered. Keep up.....

Anyway - haven't you got some immigrants to abuse somewhere...?

**dcfcsteve** · 10/11/2005, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

This is what happens when you let too immigrants into your country who are too
different culturally from the native people, they tend to congregate in urban ghettos. Can see lots of trouble ahead especially with miltant Islam causing trouble everywhere you look!!

This is what happens when you let people with poor diction and spelling, not to mention a very limited grasp of social issues, join web forums.....

**liamon** · 10/11/2005, 2:16 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

On the other hand if it still going on in two weeks, expect it to spread out from the areas affected at the minute

Surely the French government will have surrenedered long before then?

There is no quick fix to this. French labour laws allow high unemployment to exist. The poor kids in the tower blocks are poorly educated and this enhances this unemployment situation in these sectors of society. You can't change there things overnight. It's going to be a long road to solve this thing.

However, I can't see the current rate of rioting continuing for long more. A few weeks maybe and then it should start to calm down as the government will promise all sorts of quick fixes that won;t really achieve anything.

**Dodge** · 10/11/2005, 9:26 AM

As an aside to that, there's currentlya feud between 2 Paris St. Germain supporters' groups; The Tigres Mystique (left leaning, multiracial) and Bolougne Boys (right leaning, genreally white) which seem they battle at practically every game (they're segregated, even at away games). It was heightened when the "Boys" attacked some tiger property in the suburb where it all kicked off. The interior minister has already met with bith sides...

Apparently there's a huge riot planned for Sunday...

**Condex** · 10/11/2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

This is what happens when you let people with poor diction and spelling, not to mention a very limited grasp of social issues, join web forums.....

And you are an example of a social worker with his head in the sand, they wouldn't have the problems/issues if they didn't let them in....

Are all the people contributing to the forum members of the SWP...

**WeAreRovers** · 10/11/2005, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

Are all the people contributing to the forum members of the SWP...

No, I hate the SWP and their ilk as much as I hate ill-informed right wing views on immigration and law & order.

KOH

**dcfcsteve** · 10/11/2005, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

And you are an example of a social worker with his head in the sand, they wouldn't have the problems/issues if they didn't let them in....

Are all the people contributing to the forum members of the SWP...

No. I don't even think any of us are members of the SWP. Thoughh thanks for checking. Are you the last of our nation's Bluershirts ? Thank God we've finally unearthed someone with such a sophisticated understanding of social issues.

Perhaps you'd also have considered that the major Euroopean economies (France, uk, Germany etc) wouldn't have half the economies they currently have without immigration ? And in particular would have declining growth rates and even faster ageing populations, creating equally as troublesome social and economic issues. Living in London, I can guarantee you that this city would literally grind to a halt and fall apart without its migrant workers. Who the hell do you think is the doing all the jobs that France requires doing in order to function (transport, health, municipal care etc) but that the French themselves don't want to do ? And don't claim that unemployment is high enough in France for the French themselves to fill these roles - France has it's current unemployment levels because of structural problems and antiquated regulations - not because the middle-class French are being denied their yearning to become bus drivers or bin-men by plucky young Algerians.

Anyways - given that France spent decades/centuries raping the countries that a lot of their immigrant population come form (particularly Algeria, where they used chemical weapons in the Independence War) there are many who would argue that the situation is just being reversed. Former Imperial powers can't have it both ways....

**jofyisgod** · 10/11/2005, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Condex

And you are an example of a social worker with his head in the sand, they wouldn't have the problems/issues if they didn't let them in....

Are all the people contributing to the forum members of the SWP...

Oh my God...can't believe people like this still exist. Are you from the 1960s?

'don't let them in'-How would the British economy (you, like me, are in London) survive without the goldmine of immigrant labour, providing a cheaper, and more skilled, alternative to locals who really don't want to do some of these jobs anyway. I live in an area full of different races, and the only racial problems we have are with ignorant individuals such as yourselves. Immigration isn't the problem here, social ignorance and deprivation is.

**jofyisgod** · 10/11/2005, 11:33 AM

I think me and Steve are singing from the same sheet here. Sorry to double post-Steve's a bit more eloquent than me!

**pete** · 10/11/2005, 11:42 AM

I haven't lived in France so don't feel qualified to comment on when just visit as a tourist. I still don't think this is a uniquely french situation & that comments like "this could never happen here" are misguided as we have small immigrant numbers & pretty much full employment. I wonder what will happen in Ireland when immigrant numbers treble (won't take very long) & we have 7% unemployment?

**Dodge** · 10/11/2005, 11:57 AM

Why will immigrant numbers treble Pete?

**WeAreRovers** · 10/11/2005, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by pete

I wonder what will happen in Ireland when immigrant numbers treble (won't take very long) & we have 7% unemployment?

Even the PDs admit that we need lots more migrant workers just to fill current positions in the workforce. And we'll need more and more as time goes on. Talk of 7% unemployment is just scaremongering and worse, it's scaremongering that even rabid right-wing politicians don't go in for.

As others pointed out immigration has helped make London in particular a great city, both economically and culturally. And as for France, they are reaping what they sowed in North Africa and elsewhere.

KOH