State of the League

[OneRedArmy]

The only silver bullet is significant government investment in stadium infrastructure combined with huge marketing spend from the FAI.

If that didn't happen when the Government coffers were overflowing then it certainly won't happen now.

Forcing adherence to the wage cap and pushing forward a coherent marketing approach is probably the most realistic options now available (current CPO approach is spotty, inconsistent and too depedent on the whims of the individual and club).

The core equation still doesn't make sense, we are a nation of football fans who won't watch our own football and we are almost unique in that respect. Nobody has ever given a coherent reason why this CAN'T be changed, all that we know is that like any significant behavioural change it will take a long time.

[Dave77]

State of the League= TERRIBLE (Financially)

i think it just shows that semi-proffesional clubs is the only option, as a nation we can support pro clubs but as a SPL, Barclays Prem league loving nation we simply cant support players been payed big wages.

if people out there want to put big money into clubs i would love to see it going into stadiums and youth structures, maybe then top young players would come through then sold on, money going to player wages is just making things worse. if players want to earn 2000, 3000, 4000 euro etc i think they will have to go abroad (dont like saying it because league would lose quality players) but I think most would prefer to have a club to support (without every two years worrying about points deduction, or worse) then two, three years etc of success then relegation or going out of business.

[Angus]

The only silver bullet is significant government investment in stadium infrastructure combined with huge marketing spend from the FAI.

If that didn't happen when the Government coffers were overflowing then it certainly won't happen now.

Forcing adherence to the wage cap and pushing forward a coherent marketing approach is probably the most realistic options now available (current CPO approach is spotty, inconsistent and too depedent on the whims of the individual and club).

The core equation still doesn't make sense, we are a nation of football fans who won't watch our own football and we are almost unique in that respect. Nobody has ever given a coherent reason why this CAN'T be changed, all that we know is that like any significant behavioural change it will take a long time.

Nail on head time - marketing and selling is key

BUT - allow me to ask you this - assume the league was better sold and marketed, and assume the grounds were better, do we genuinely think that there are enough people who are interested in football in ireland ? Bear in mind that watching MoTD is not being interested in football - reading the irish Times is not being interested in football.

I struggle to see whether there is enough people who even with a better matchday experience actually have an interest to tip up every week

[gufct]

The only way forward is if clubs start to live in the real world. Offering contracts of 3-4 years worth 100k+ a year is madness.

This coming from a bohs fan is rather Ironic.

[pineapple stu]

I'd agree with the "big four" spending mad money but not the middle four. Bray, Rovers and UCD seem to be ok. Derry are ok but there chairman has hinted about going back part time.
In the bottom four Galway, Sligo, Harps all got into trouble for going Full-Time when they probably should have stayed part-time. Cobh are in trouble as in reality they are a small club and would always have difficulties competing.

This would be covered under the honourable exceptions clause in my post. It's a general overview, not a precise look at every club.

Though we're bottom four and Sligo are middle four. But if things keep going, we'll be league winners in a few seasons, with Rovers and Bray on our tails.

This coming from a bohs fan is rather Ironic.

What, he's not allowed be worried at how his own club is being run?

[jebus]

Look lads the main problem for the LoI is that there is no structure to football in this country. The juniors and the schoolboys have something akin to hatred for the LoI and that needs to be changed. It will be hard, Limerick tried bringing the juniors on last year to poor affect so I don't think the clubs will be able to alone, the FAI really need to pull the finger out on this issue in my opinion

[pineapple stu]

Look lads the main problem for the LoI is that there is no structure to football in this country. The juniors and the schoolboys have something akin to hatred for the LoI and that needs to be changed.

Agreed.

Also, clubs have the intellectual capa...silver bullet! Silver bullet!

[Paraic]

The reality of the league is that we're talking about a having professional league that is run primarily on a voluntary basis. It's all very well having a CPO, and in a few notable exceptions a CEO, but the structures and lifeblood of many clubs are maintained by volunteers. That's pretty much always been the case and to a large extent that's why you see clubs come and go, go up and down. There is insufficient money in domestic football to make it worthwhile to run as sustainable business and therefore, the vast majority of people running clubs can only sustain it for so long - then they get tired or broke, or both and pass it on to the next generation

remembering back to Dundalk in the late 70s the board was made up primarily of business men, probably in their 40s-50s who loved football and Dundalk. they also knew a bit about business, were close enough to dublin to attract the largest pool of decent players and they paid well no doubt as well. But then they moved, on, passed on the mantle to the next generation.

So to some extent the problems are cyclical, but there's no doubt that the simultaneous combustion of mulltiple clubs that's happening now is unprecedented, or is it? Is it a case that we just didn't know about it because of the FAI licensing, closer scrutiny by the revenue commissioners etc have brought things out in to the open?

A few people have referred to structures throughout the game. Genesis 1, simply reiterated what the Ray Cass report had said a few years previosuly in relation to the FAIs structures of governance and although things have changed and there's a full executive there now, most of the pre-existing political structures, enclaves and cliques still exist.

So the solution? to some extent the FAI technical plan is required reading. It sets out the whole concept of creating a career path and options for players. Maximising their potential throughout their career. It's not just about centres of excellence, regional development officers etc, it's about pointing the entire football community towards the same goal - for me participation and playing standards are crucial. how do we get there? a few group hugs and a little bit of open-mindedness would help for starters.

[superfrank]

So to some extent the problems are cyclical, but there's no doubt that the simultaneous combustion of mulltiple clubs that's happening now is unprecedented, or is it? Is it a case that we just didn't know about it because of the FAI licensing, closer scrutiny by the revenue commissioners etc have brought things out in to the open?

Hopefully, this is the reason why these problems are coming out in the open. There's nowhere to hide, it appears, with the FAI monitoring every club.

This season has seen more declarations of financial problems than I can remember but some of the clubs, esp. Cork, are generating more money than ever.

In the case of Cork, there have been three separate statements today on the issue. The RTÉ one issued figures, the Cork one denies these figures but doesn't deny the trouble and the FAI is tip-toeing.

I think only Cork really know the extent and are clearly unwilling to reveal all.

It's not bad news for the league, it's just a demonstration of how not to do run a club financially.

Cork have made thousands on the back of selling players in recent years and they must have picked some money in Europe and with the FAI and Premier Division prize money (however miniscule), yet they are in financial trouble.

Whereas, UCD haven't had any of the financial benefits of Cork in recent years but we don't hear of trouble in their camp.

The simple answer is Cork have been wasting their money.

[CMcC]

Mention of grass roots football structures, buttering up the schoolboy leagues etc, marketing of the league and amateurs running professional clubs (that one certainly a reason for some of the financial mis management) is missing the glaringly obvious point that most Irish people dont want to watch Irish football. They just couldnt be arsed and until that changes or somthing radical happens to make that change - and someone above mentioned behavioural change is a long term thing - all the marketing, new stadiums, facilities, wage caps etc will not change a damn thing.

The league as we know it is almost dead, off the pitch at least. Which is a pity as the fare on the pitch is pretty good these days.

[Student Mullet]

I think this discussion is an overreaction. The number of teams in each division is changing this winter, that should fix any problems that exist.

[jebus]

Mention of grass roots football structures, buttering up the schoolboy leagues etc, marketing of the league and amateurs running professional clubs (that one certainly a reason for some of the financial mis management) is missing the glaringly obvious point that most Irish people dont want to watch Irish football. They just couldnt be arsed and until that changes or somthing radical happens to make that change - and someone above mentioned behavioural change is a long term thing - all the marketing, new stadiums, facilities, wage caps etc will not change a damn thing.

The league as we know it is almost dead, off the pitch at least. Which is a pity as the fare on the pitch is pretty good these days.

I know what you mean about the interest just not being there, but the only way to reverse that is to get schoolboys and juniors involved, and try to win over a new generation of supporters that are kids at the moment

[Black and White]

Is it true that Kildare players are guna go on strike????

Also All Ireland League is not the way forward, its about ten steps backwards...only one decent team up the north and they'd only finish mid table down here!!

[holidaysong]

Is it true that Kildare players are guna go on strike????

If they're not paid the money owed to them by September 13th then they will strike.

[Sheridan]

Can we bin all talk of group stages of europe. That's exactly the type of talk that has the league in such a mess - clubs chasing the holy grail.

No, we can't. That genie's out of the bottle and it's not going back. If clubs go bust/scale back radically it creates an opportunity for an opportunistic board to streak ahead of the competition with a little investment, and the arms race begins anew (albeit at a slower pace next time.) Which is what will get someone there eventually and therefore not entirely a bad thing, although the rate of attrition will be a lot higher than it need be due to gross mismanagement.

[CMcC]

I know what you mean about the interest just not being there, but the only way to reverse that is to get schoolboys and juniors involved, and try to win over a new generation of supporters that are kids at the moment

While I understand the historic tension between various Limerick senior teams and the Limerick junior clubs I dont really think that is much of an issue (at least in Dublin). Whilst administrators of the junior clubs may havea problem with certain LoI sides, I dont think most junior players have any opinion whatsoever on LoI sides. Apathy is probably the depth of feeling - like your average footbally loving paddy i'm afraid.

Again the key problem for domestic football here is that nobody wants to go and watch it.

[jebus]

I think there's a danger with LoI fans thinking one of our clubs getting to the Champions League will automatically transfer the league into a wonderful place, full to the brim with new supporters converted back from the Premiership though. I just don't see that happeneing

[pineapple stu]

Nobody has ever given a coherent reason why this CAN'T be changed

There is none. And I don't care about it either. What's more important is a reason how it CAN be changed.

[pete]

With the UEFA Cup and the CL restructuring coming in next season, I don't think saying that a LOI club could get to the group stages within the next 5 years is the pipe dream it once was - our league is getting better plus it will be easier to advance!

Under the current system I think a club would have to be amazingly lucky to get into the group stages. Next season big changes so not possible to play the likes of Kiev & hardest team would be someone like Standard Liege (Belgium ranked 13th) so no impossible.

Not have a cut off other clubs due our new situation but clubs are paying very high wages & gambling against stadium or some other windfall. I think full time pro football can be sustained but obviously not at 200k wages.100k for the best players in the league is probably even too much. Drogs are a planning application decision away from financial reality & Bohs a court decision away from similar situation. They would likely not have debts but would mean massive changes on & off the pitch.

I don't know what the solution to the LOI but I have already had the "professional football can't work in Ireland" comment today.

[passerrby]

[what does anybody think is about the right figure for a full time pro to be earning in LOI given that his career will be no more that say five years at the top.