[MOD EDIT: This thread was split from here, from inauguration day (20/01) forward. May god have mercy on us all.]
It would be great to see, but are there any contemporary precedents which spring to mind? Venezuela?...
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[MOD EDIT: This thread was split from here, from inauguration day (20/01) forward. May god have mercy on us all.]
It would be great to see, but are there any contemporary precedents which spring to mind? Venezuela?...
Greece. After the crash the Greek people chucked out the traditional centre-left party and put in the centre-right crowd. Then when they did no better they swung back to the left and went for Syriza.
I am extremely hopeful for what Trump will do as President. Ignoring all the noise that is around him - some of which is his own doing, most of which is the incessant wailing from the liberal MSM - he has accomplished more in terms of an agenda in a week than Obama did in 8 years, including 2 when Dems had control of the house and senate. That said, if Trump fails to deliver, i do not see a massive lurch to the left - and for a couple of reasons. I dont think Trump represents a massive lurch to the right. He's essentially independent, he is a populist candidate with some centre right policies and a couple of (what you might consider more traditional) leftist policies. Hes no where near as right wing as, say, the Tea Party cohort of the Republican Party or some of the true right wing politicians in Europe. Also, i think the Democrats are in a lot of trouble. They have abandoned their traditional principles in favour of chasing a slice of the corporate pie. They continue to look outside of their party to find reasons why they lost to Trump instead of being self critical and foraging a new path. They also will lose more votes the more they continue to divide the country along race lines and deligitimize Trump. The bitterness is far more worrying and severe than i thought it would be.
Other reasons why i dont see a lurch to a far left candidate is that they have had essentially that for the previous 8 years and nothing that improved the lives of ordinary Americans was achieved. Even Obamacare has failed in many ways. An agenda that furthered globalism, poor trade deals, a foreign policy of interventionism and that ushered wildcat terrorism through the creation of ISIS is what they have to show for the Obama years. I do not think history will look favourably on Obamas tenure at all.
Here is an interesting and short interview with Tulsi Gabbard, an up and coming Dem, with CNN last night. FYI she was interviewed by Trump for the SoS position. This is the type of truth that the rest of her party needs to engage in before they can be taken seriously again. How can you fund terrorists that want to destroy you? How can you attend/support marches for womens rights in America when you take money from Saudi Arabia? The hypocricy of the left is astounding in so many ways. The desparation of CNN to find a way to defend (or have Gabbard defend) these actions is funny. She didnt.
It's true. He's doing what he said he would and what he was voted in to do.
Like I said, I have high hopes he'll do well.
Can't believe you godwinned.
Yeah good to see him sticking up for the ordinary people and attempting to get rid of the estate tax in Congress today. It's literally the only decent progressive tax they have over there.
A depressing read by any standards:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f29a675af12c
Im not saying he's perfect by any means (although show me a US president that was) but this is what I'd be holding him accountable to if I had voted for him.
http://static.animalpolitico.com/wp-...rato-trump.jpg
RAM, why are you reading WaPo and trying to get a fair take on Trump - it won't happen.
https://www.mrc.org/commentary/soros...-organizations
Unrelated image below. Take their points of view with a grain of salt.
https://consortiumnews.com/wp-conten...ournalists.jpg
Stu,
John Pilger wrote an excellent piece (published four days before Trump's inauguration) on where responsibility rests for Trump's rise, but it echoes some of your sentiments here on the failures and hypocrisy of Obama, the Democrats and the so-called "liberals" of the American (and British) "left".
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Pilger
Glenn Greenwald has also done some fantastic reporting and commentary recently on the hypocrisy/deceit of the mainstream and "liberal" media/elite in relation to allegations of Russian hacking/interference in the US presidential election and the concepts of "fake news"/"post-truth" that have also featured so heavily in related discourse and mainstream analyses of Trump:
i) 'Glenn Greenwald: Mainstream U.S. Media is Culpable for Disseminating Fake & Deceitful News on Russia': https://www.democracynow.org/2017/1/...am_us_media_is
ii) 'The Guardian’s Summary of Julian Assange’s Interview Went Viral and Was Completely False': https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/...pletely-false/
iii) 'WashPost Is Richly Rewarded for False News About Russia Threat While Public Is Deceived': https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04/...c-is-deceived/
The video discussion with Greenwald (starting at 45m23s) on alleged Russian hacking in the first of the three links is well worth a watch.
The following is from the second link:
Politicians and those governing have always deceived the public, from before World War 1 to the Iraq War and since. It's not that deception in politics is a new phenomenon; it's more so that the establishment is losing its control or monopoly over the truth, lies and the prevailing or dominant narratives due to social and new media. These "fake news"/"post-truth" tags/smears are weapons utilised by the establishment and the mainstream media to discredit political foes. In many instances, the accusations may indeed be legitimate, but they are so often also indicative of gross double standards. Indeed, the proven unreliability of the mainstream media (which is easier to spot now in the information era of new and social media) only provides fuel for Trump's conspiracy theories and more paranoid utterances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
As Greenwald states during the aforementioned video discussion in the first link above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Greenwald
Specifically in relation to the allegations of Russian hacking, Craig Murray spotted what was perhaps a very revealing admission by Obama in the outgoing president's final press conference:
Complaints from the US establishment of alleged Russian interference in the election were exceptionally rich besides: http://fair.org/home/hypocrisy-of-ru...rd-to-stomach/Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Murray
Some further words on US and Russian electoral interference and the hollowness of the professed outrage emanating from Washington: http://www.thenational.ae/opinion/co...ot-funny#page1Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine Jackson
In fact, never mind mere electoral interference, here's that list of 57 instances of the US overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since World War 2: https://williamblum.org/essays/read/...he-master-listQuote:
Originally Posted by Rashmee Roshan Lall
The hypocrisy from certain quarters in the British establishment has also been rich, especially when it's come to criticising Trump's proposed wall and his concerning views on the use of torture. Britain has engaged in systematic torture too without admission, regret or apology whilst the Tories, many of whom would have ridiculed and chastised Trump's fanciful notions of building a wall along the Mexican border to keep out Mexican migrants, are the very same ones who supported, both vocally and through direct funding, the building of a wall at Calais to help keep migrants and refugees who've fled war-zones out of the UK.
That poster is absolutely hilarious - "The Restoring Community Safety Act" - why doesn't he just go the whole hog and put in the "Orange Skin and blond highlights act" - "The foot.ie" Act.
That Poster is a populist list of absolute and utter scutter and lies dreamt up to try and win an election. It has ZERO basis in reality - I mean how stupid do you have to be to absorb all of that.
Six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest in Washington – what a laugh – Look at his administration – Betsy De Vos – her family has given OVER $200m to the republican party over the last 25 years! He has a Labour Secretary who is has so many concerns surrounding him – he can’t even get his confirmation hearing organised.
The whole thing is a complete joke – let’s look at it again in 93 day’s time.
A lot to read and respond to here. Also my last day in my current job. So ill attempt to respond and react to everyone over the next couple of days.
Osa, i linked to the MRC article which, yes, is an organization that takes on the liberal MSM from a conservative position. However, the article itself is just one of many that points out the links between the likes of WaPo et al and the globalist agenda of Soros and co. And the influence that these players have on US politics and how that is supported by a corrupt media. I feel it is important that we are all able to look at our own information sources with as much of a critical eye as we possibly can and challenge our own biases. The image is the one that i would encourage more people to spend time on. These are facts supported by the Podesta leaks. These are all huge organizations that i would say 90% of the populace place a high level of trust in. I spent an unhealthy amount of time last year diving into this stuff and it really is quite shocking the levels of collusion and corruption that are taking place and, more shockingly, that we are simply gobbling up as "the truth". For all that MRC has its agenda, it is not a huge player and it is open and transparent. The organizations in the above image are huge players and they are not transparent about their agenda at all and promote themselves as independent media. This is genuinely troubling stuff and this, more than anything Trump has said or will do, is what is creating instability in America and beyond.
It was created as part of his transition i.e. after he won. But how and ever. Whether you think this stuff is right or wroing, achievable or pie in the sky, it is his accountability framework and - yes - we should see how he has done in 93 days time, just like i suggested. We will see how he - and his picks - do after his term is done. If someone believes he has failed before he has started then it is that person that is being stupid.
Regarding Obama's cabinet - https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/795813354740781056
It'll be interesting to see how the NAFTA and the WTO react to this 20% import tax plan. I'm guessing negatively. The man and his administration just seem to have a hair-trigger when it comes to policy ideas. Someone on another forum I frequent commented on his idea to send "the feds" to Chicago to stop organized crime: "What feds? What agency? To play what role? It's just something he heard on TV, apparently." The man's Twitter account has already caused a diplomatic incident.
I have a feeling Paul Ryan's Congress is just waiting for the right issue to pull the rug out from under Trump - whose favorability ratings are shockingly low for a newly inaugurated President - and establish their authority. Ryan's already taken a shot by suggesting Trump drop his moronic attitude towards his decisive loss in the popular vote, and the media is treating his administration with greater and greater amounts of undeniable contempt every day it seems: Bannon's comments recently just seem bizarrely self-hurting.
I will say that as someone who would have no qualms being described as a liberal progressive, its disappointing to see some of the rhetoric being thrown around by that "side" since the election and especially in the last week, that bears an uncomfortable similarity to the kind of rhetoric thrown around in the Obama years by a certain strain right wing, which was so easy to mock. Democracy being described as irredeemably broken, legitimacy being questioned, the other side being painted in apocalyptic terms, open violence being not just endorsed but praised as a means of political expression, etc. Michelle Obama's rallying cry of keeping to the high road seems to have been completely discarded by a generation of angry young left voters suddenly realizing that not everything goes your way.
They really need a figurehead to group around at this point, someone akin to Sanders but not quite that left, to start putting front and centre as an alternative. But it doesn't seem like the Democratic party is overflowing with Presidential hopefuls right now.
Donald Trump is signing a refugee ban on Holocaust Remembrance Day.
Bill Clinton speaks out in favour of Trump policy.
That's back in 1995, no wall, no mention of patroling Muslim neighbourhoods and no signing of executive orders banning immigrants from certain countries. Are you going to actually address some of the concerns of this man or are you going to continue to deflect with these obscure references?