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Colbert Report
19/03/2010, 10:40 PM
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/joe-16-signs-for-man-united-2104303.html

Let's hope he's the next Great White Hope.

cestlavie
19/03/2010, 11:01 PM
All the clubs have been tracking him for sometime. Too early to say how far he will go but hope he makes it too professional level.

Remember posting this about him few weeks ago in Shane Duffy thread. I should be a scout. lol

Glad to hear that. I haven't seen much of him to be honest. How about the U21 and U19 'keepers? I've heard that there's another young Donegal keeper in the U19 squad... Hopefully he's taken inspiration from Packie and Shay!
The Finn Harps keeper is Irish under 19 keeper, Ciaran Gallagher, got good potential, time will tell. Also the under 16 or under 17 keeper is from Donegal and is being tracked by nearly all the top clubs over the water. He is from Glenea, think his name is Joe Coll or something like that!

Charlie Darwin
19/03/2010, 11:17 PM
Well, he's from Donegal, so I think we can be sure he'll be brilliant. 6'1 at 16 isn't bad either - hopefully he'll get a bit taller.

Predator
20/03/2010, 6:23 PM
There's another goalkeeper from Donegal who was nets for the U18 Schools team. Marty McGinty I think is his name. Not sure who he's with, but he was linked with Hibs last year.

SkStu
20/03/2010, 6:52 PM
there was a 17 year old GK that moved from Monaghan United to Wolves in September called Aaron McCarey. Worth keeping an eye on from all accounts....

Charlie Darwin
20/03/2010, 6:58 PM
There's another goalkeeper from Donegal who was nets for the U18 Schools team. Marty McGinty I think is his name. Not sure who he's with, but he was linked with Hibs last year.
That's a spectacularly Irish name.

bwagner
22/03/2010, 11:51 PM
Conrad Logan another keeper overseas from Donegal

tetsujin1979
04/07/2012, 11:23 AM
Coll leaves United with a year left on his contract: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/ireland-prospect-coll-quits-old-trafford-3158384.html

mark12345
04/07/2012, 2:34 PM
Now if Trap is worth his salt, he'll get him a trial at a middle of the table Serie A club. The boy has bags of potential.

Bungle
04/07/2012, 3:29 PM
Now if Trap is worth his salt, he'll get him a trial at a middle of the table Serie A club. The boy has bags of potential.

Agree that our management/coaching team should be helping out lads like him, whether it's Trap or Alan Kelly or whoever it might be. Don't want to be unduly critical of Trap, but my big concern would be that he probably has very little knowledge about lads like Coll. Previous managers like Brian Kerr, Mick McCarthy and even Stan were probably very up to speed with our youth teams. I know Coll is one for past Trap's tenure, but I do think that it's important that an international manager is aware of what is coming through.

nigel-harps1954
04/07/2012, 10:49 PM
Best thing for young Coll to do now is to come back to Ireland and play a few seasons of League of Ireland. Get himself noticed easier.

Acornvilla
04/07/2012, 11:03 PM
hed probably walk into the shams team

nigel-harps1954
04/07/2012, 11:27 PM
hed probably walk into the shams team

Not necessarily. Just because he was with Man Utd doesn't mean he's any better than anyone that's currently in Ireland. Jansson was with Tottenham after all.

Charlie Darwin
04/07/2012, 11:35 PM
Rovers also declined to offer former Manchester United goalkeeper Conor Devlin a contract in the winter. Jansson was evidently better.

I know, it doesn't make sense to me either.

Acornvilla
04/07/2012, 11:45 PM
Yeah I was basically saying the Swede sucks balls, bless him.. Devlin would have been worth a punt too really, Shams made some awfuly stupid decisions as regards GK's anyway, and this Coll lad could hardly be as bad a move, I wonder would he bat an eyelid at a 6 month contract + CL footie..

He is only a baby in GK terms thou.

nigel-harps1954
04/07/2012, 11:55 PM
Nonsense, if Shamrock Rovers were to sign any goalkeeper now they should be looking at Graham Stack on a short term deal.

Acornvilla
05/07/2012, 1:19 AM
Stacks never really set the world alight thou, had hoped hed be useful and looked like he would be for quite a while, but he obviously isn't up to a whole lot.. Can't be worse than Oscar or whatever thou!

ArdeeBhoy
05/07/2012, 1:29 AM
Or a certain A.Smith perhaps?

tricky_colour
11/07/2012, 11:16 PM
Well, he's from Donegal, so I think we can be sure he'll be brilliant. 6'1 at 16 isn't bad either - hopefully he'll get a bit taller.

Maybe, but I think I stopped growing by the time I was 16, although I was 6' by then anyway.
But I have read the age men stop growing taller variously reported at 18 20 and 22. I guess it varies a lot.

Acornvilla
11/07/2012, 11:44 PM
Same for me I was just under 6 foot at 15, and then never grew again!

gastric
22/09/2012, 1:15 AM
Seemingly, hasn't found a club. Does anyone have an update on him? is it time to wonder about his future?

gastric
03/12/2012, 6:24 AM
According to a poster on YBIG from Donegal, Joe is at home playing Gaelic and was homesick. Shane Supple all over again. Will be interesting to see if he ever returns to football.

nigel-harps1954
03/12/2012, 3:20 PM
Funny, I heard he was out searching for a club in England not so long ago. Would be an interesting signing for someone like Harps.

I always figure it must be damning on the confidence of a young player like that to be released and told they're not good enough to make it.

It's precisely why I believe they shouldn't be going to the top clubs in England.

geysir
03/12/2012, 5:01 PM
I always figure it must be damning on the confidence of a young player like that to be released and told they're not good enough to make it.

It's precisely why I believe they shouldn't be going to the top clubs in England.

Was he released by Man U? I understood that he walked away from them on his own terms.

nigel-harps1954
03/12/2012, 5:12 PM
Technically yes, he quit because he wasn't getting any football there supposedly.

geysir
03/12/2012, 5:20 PM
Afaiu Man u wanted to keep him on their books which is not the same as being released.

tricky_colour
04/12/2012, 4:04 AM
That's the problem with going to Man U so many good players there it's hard to get anywhere which is not going to do
your confidence any good, better to start at a less club where you are more likely to get opportunities and progress
which will boost confidence.

tetsujin1979
04/12/2012, 9:55 PM
you have to balance out the lack of opportunities against the superior training, facilities, etc that you won't get at lower ranked clubs

SkStu
05/12/2012, 1:52 AM
You can't beat experience gained through game time in my opinion.

CraftyToePoke
05/12/2012, 2:21 AM
That's the problem with going to Man U so many good players there it's hard to get anywhere which is not going to do
your confidence any good, better to start at a less club where you are more likely to get opportunities and progress
which will boost confidence.

Maybe.

But the top clubs naturally have not only the best players but their pick of coaches also. Would the holes in Robbie Keane's game that stopped him from being a world class player throughout his career have been better coached and ironed out of him at a bigger side than Wolves?

Understand, I am a Robbie fan, but I still think he hinted at even more than all he delivered, which is considerable none the less.

Paddy Garcia
05/12/2012, 4:29 PM
According to a poster on YBIG from Donegal, Joe is at home playing Gaelic and was homesick. Shane Supple all over again. Will be interesting to see if he ever returns to football.

I wonder how Shane is doing & is he playing at any level. I thought he was a fantastic prospect!

Charlie Darwin
05/12/2012, 4:32 PM
Supple is Stephen Cluxton's understudy for Dublin.

paul_oshea
05/12/2012, 4:39 PM
he might be pushed up to 1st team this year then.

Supreme feet
05/12/2012, 6:01 PM
You can't beat experience gained through game time in my opinion.

Would generally agree. A lot of talented lads who go to big clubs without getting regular football (Miller, Gibson, Stokes, Potter, Stack, Clifford, Henderson) end up having superior technique for the experience, but with question marks over work-rate, hunger and/or suitability for high-pressure competitive football. On the other hand, the players who served their time with LOI or smaller British clubs, and had regular first-team football from a young age (McCarthy, Hoolahan, Coleman, Long) have tended to make better use of their potential, and been able to stand out as genuine, hard-working team players once they make the step up, without lacking much in terms of technique.

Of course, there are exceptions, but most top-level Irish players fall in between these two extremes - coming through EPL academies, but then dropping down a division (like Whelan, Kelly, Walters, etc) and rebuilding their careers from there.

liamoo11
17/02/2013, 11:25 AM
I'm sure this was posted but he signed for derry wil b backup to their international first choice keeper

kennedmc
17/02/2013, 12:11 PM
Would generally agree. A lot of talented lads who go to big clubs without getting regular football (Miller, Gibson, Stokes, Potter, Stack, Clifford, Henderson) end up having superior technique for the experience, but with question marks over work-rate, hunger and/or suitability for high-pressure competitive football.

The fundamental problem is if the player is good enough though. There is a bias by us fans that when an Irish player signs for a big club we automatically put him on a pedestal.

The reality is though there are plenty of players who haven't made the grade at big clubs that are now playing for other pl and championship clubs. The fact that some Irish ones have't (along with other nationalities) means they are not good enough.
This is not just an Irish problem or issue!

I believe The more fundamental problem for Irish football is the technical ability of players we are producing between 8-14. It is currently no where good enough so how can we improve the overall standard of technique with Irish kids.

DannyInvincible
17/02/2013, 7:31 PM
Would generally agree. A lot of talented lads who go to big clubs without getting regular football (Miller, Gibson, Stokes, Potter, Stack, Clifford, Henderson) end up having superior technique for the experience, but with question marks over work-rate, hunger and/or suitability for high-pressure competitive football.

Perhaps slightly harsh including Gibson in that group. Issue with Trap aside, which is maybe indicative of immaturity/a petulant attitude, he's shown himself to be more than capable having moved on to Everton.

mark12345
17/02/2013, 9:01 PM
I believe The more fundamental problem for Irish football is the technical ability of players we are producing between 8-14. It is currently no where good enough so how can we improve the overall standard of technique with Irish kids.

The 64,000 dollar question right there. I've been banging away on this drum for years on this messageboard and no one wants to take up the debate with any sort of conviction. The issue is, as you quite astutely point out, the lack of technical ability of our youngsters. How do we improve it? My suggestion is that the FAI hire a few good South American youth coaches and let them work with the pick of Irish talent. Give the coaches a five or six year contract. Far better investment than spending telephone numbers on Trap.

SkStu
18/02/2013, 5:19 PM
Just saw this Mark which reminded me of your post...very interesting read about our coaching mentality which we've talked about here before.

http://theleagueofirelandblog.blogspot.ca/2013/02/gary-dempseys-weekly-column_18.html

paul_oshea
18/02/2013, 8:10 PM
i really wanted to read that but the white on black text after 10 hours sitting in front of a pc is just too difficult. Actually even after 1 hour id say its too difficult read white on black background.

SkStu
18/02/2013, 8:15 PM
Dont say i never did anything for you Paul! ;)


Gary Dempsey's weekly column

Follow Gary on Twitter (@Dempz8)

Schoolboy football has to change in this country if we are to produce better quality players. I recently went to watch my cousins play in a junior game and the county under-13 team happened to be training on the pitch beside me. What I saw was beyond belief!!! This was suppose to be training for the best 20 odd players in the county, and no joking it was 27 minutes before they touched a ball.

Now if you have to work on fitness with players at 11/12 years of age there's something seriously wrong. These players need ball ball and more ball. They need to be taught how to pass it, how to control it, how to receive it and where to move to get it . They should be doing this from 7/8 years of age in my opinion.

I've seen training sessions also where there's 14 or 15 kids training and the coach only has two footballs. Minimum there should be a ball for every two players if not a ball each. You will regularly see before a schoolboy game two fellas in the goal and the rest of the team taking shots at them, Stone Age stuff!! Crazy stuff.

I also attended another schoolboy game to watch some of my Academy players play and again the things I saw and heard were ridiculous. I had just walked in the gate and a ball had been played over the top and the goal keeper never came off his line to pick it up and the manager starts screaming at this little kid of 11 in the goal 'would you ever get off your line and pick it up'. The keeper from then on was a nervous wreck, didn't want to know really because he was TERRIFIED of making a mistake and god forbid let in a goal.

You go to any schoolboy game and listen on the sidelines to the information and shouts from the parents and managers, its embarrassing. You will certainly hear 'Jesus Christ lads, wake up'. I heard this from a county team manager, and 'would you just clear the ball and stop messing with it at the back,'... God forbid the kids might take the ball down and try to pass it.

What I see anytime I go to a game is some great players that are terrified of making a mistake and are made to play the game totally the wrong way. I see managers and coaches that are hell bent on winning at all costs, no matter what it takes or how they play. Its ALL about winning.

In Spain, Holland and these countries, schoolboy football is non competitive, they play smaller sided games, in smaller goals. This leads to players getting more touches on the ball, more skill and more goals. How many under 12 games have you seen when a player gets a touch but then might not see the ball again for 15 minutes, happens everywhere and its madness.

I work with young players in my academy and see when you take that fear away from them and tell them to go ENJOY themselves and EXPRESS themselves and without worrying about losing or making a mistake its an absolute joy to watch. They will listen to you and try and play the right way. Yes they lose the ball, yes they make mistakes but so what? This is how they learn, but they do it knowing full well that I'm not going to be screaming at them and frightening the life out of them where they end up going through the game not wanting the ball, for fear of another bollocking from the sidelines.

We HAVE good young players in this country and its up to us to produce them, coach them properly, teach them the game and watch them learn and develop. Coaches and parents have a huge responsibility in this. Coaches have to get rid of this win at all costs mentality and start thinking about these young players. Let them play, take the fear factor away and watch them grow and they will surprise you!

Socially we have a big obligation to these kids too, teaching them other disciplines in life. I read a great line the other day on Twitter and it read 'Try not limit seeing progress as just the league table. It's by far not the only indicator of success and winning at grassroots football'

Politics in schoolboy football too will be the ruining of players in this country, I've heard of a county that make their players sign an agreement before The Kennedy Cup saying they wont leave their local league, why is this? I have come up against so many obstacles with my Academy its ridiculous, beyond belief to be honest. I've had one league assassination tell their members not to play us in friendly games, make sure their kids are insured, make sure coaches are Garda vetted......all rubbish because of one thing, pure jealously.

They don't agree with privately run academies and there are plenty of good people working at clubs and not getting paid etc, this is what they come out with. Yes, there are thousands of fantastic people, UNBELIEVABLE people who do unbelievable work in clubs up and down the country, but very few are qualified coaches!! And there lies the problem. Some believe it or not will be doing more harm than good!!

We all must try harder because like I've said the potential is there, the passion is there, the commitment is there, the skill is there, I've seen it, so lets all work harder and do right by the kids and in my opinion that's what its all about, the kids, the players, its all about them enjoying our beautiful game. JUST LET THEM PLAY!!!

Irish_Praha
18/02/2013, 8:17 PM
i really wanted to read that but the white on black text after 10 hours sitting in front of a pc is just too difficult. Actually even after 1 hour id say its too difficult read white on black background.

Paul i thought you were the computer (hacker) expert ;)
If you are at a PC just right click and choose select all, then you will have blue text on a grey/white background.
I'm sure you can do something similar with your phone too.

Charlie Darwin
18/02/2013, 9:06 PM
I've had one league assassination tell their members not to play us in friendly games, make sure their kids are insured, make sure coaches are Garda vetted......all rubbish because of one thing, pure jealously.
Now now.

paul_oshea
18/02/2013, 9:07 PM
Ya, I just think I was making the point that no one should ever write a web page or blog or whatever with white text on a black background.

brine3
18/02/2013, 10:58 PM
Yeah, I used to play as a teenager in Holland and we always played on tiny goals in training, on a small pitch. Good for developing your touch and for quick passing. Each team would have two goals and you could score on either of them. Was good for developing positioning too.

But the Dutch coaches shout at players and are feckers as well. The Dutch "system football" is so ingrained in the kids there thay they are also afraid to express themselves. If I attempted to pass the ball more than 10 yards I'd be shouted at, because they assumed we'd lose posession. It was just assumed that giving a ball over the top was always wrong, end of. Whereas due to being more exposed to the more stoneage elements of football as a kid, I could actually see an opening to play the ball into space and dink it over the top, or give a cross-field ball that would land at a player's foot. The Dutch players couldn't do that, because they only ever trained on tiny pitches. After a while they actually trusted me to play these kinds of passes. This was around the time that Beckham was breaking through and people in Holland were starting to appreciate the art of the cross.

I'll never forget the time we went to play away at the league leaders that had plastered us 5-0 at our place. We always played 4-3-3, but they had destroyed us. I suggested we keep it tight, play a bit more defensive than usual and play 4-5-1, or 5-3-2. The other players criticised me, suggesting that would be "anti-voetbal" and the coach said that, no, we would surprise the opponents by playing 4-2-4 against them. We lost by even more than in the first match.

So Dutch youth football isn't all it's cracked up to be. They play in a very rigid 4-3-3 system and are unable to play in any other way. Roy Keane had them sussed out in Amsterdam. I remember that match in the Arena very well. The Dutch are unable to play the ball over the top (as kids they never learned that) and like to build up from the back. So for the whole match Roy Keane and Kinsella were choking them, playing far up the midfield and crowding out the Dutch play and intercepting passes. Look at the positional genius of an injured Roy Keane here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9kctnluEzU), from 2:00 onwards. The Dutch try to play the ball out twice and Roy Keane intercepts both times. McAteer scores in the end.

I guess my conclusion is that Holland and Spain aren't the holy land. There are many different ways to play football, and kids should be taught them all. That makes them appreciate all the game has to offer and be more flexible players. But at young ages, age 8-14, the most important thing is to learn to control the ball and the basics of teamwork: passing and covering for each other. Nothing else really.

mark12345
18/02/2013, 11:14 PM
Just saw this Mark which reminded me of your post...very interesting read about our coaching mentality which we've talked about here before.

http://theleagueofirelandblog.blogspot.ca/2013/02/gary-dempseys-weekly-column_18.html

Thanks Stu. Yeah Gary Dempsey is spot on. Pity the powers that be wouldn't read his blog and take it to heart. I suspected the mentatlity was still the same in Ireland and Gary's blog just proves it.

Charlie Darwin
18/02/2013, 11:28 PM
Was just watching that junior football doc on Setanta and the Home Farm coach epitomised many of the bad qualities Dempsey talks about - i.e. win at all costs, make it difficult for them, etc. It's dispiriting.

On the other hand, when I was a wee lad south Dublin football changed from full-size pitches to small pitches/goals, so I went from big goals at under-7s to little goals at under-8s. We hated it at the time but I can see why it made perfect sense, although I despair that the powers-that-be only did it because it meant we were better able to run around on the smaller pitch.

squareball
18/02/2013, 11:59 PM
8-14 years olds should only play in small pitches to learn the basics of good touch, positioning and short passing. They will have a better understanding on how to create space control a ball and protect it better when they graduate onto a bigger pitch. If kids have these skills perfected it will get them a long way. They will be playing on full sized pitches for the rest of their lives so will have plenty time to learn long passing.

Charlie Darwin
19/02/2013, 12:07 AM
8-14 years olds should only play in small pitches to learn the basics of good touch, positioning and short passing. They will have a better understanding on how to create space control a ball and protect it better when they graduate onto a bigger pitch. If kids have these skills perfected it will get them a long way. They will be playing on full sized pitches for the rest of their lives so will have plenty time to learn long passing.
Well I think the point is that your limbs are smaller so a long pass is greatly reduced to begin with. I can understand the corollary though - we were itching to get onto the full-sized pitches and every season we'd hear we had to endure another year of small goals. We all envied the lads who were good enough to move to the DDSL and play in big goals.

kennedmc
19/02/2013, 7:13 AM
The 64,000 dollar question right there. I've been banging away on this drum for years on this messageboard and no one wants to take up the debate with any sort of conviction. The issue is, as you quite astutely point out, the lack of technical ability of our youngsters. How do we improve it? My suggestion is that the FAI hire a few good South American youth coaches and let them work with the pick of Irish talent. Give the coaches a five or six year contract. Far better investment than spending telephone numbers on Trap.

Yeah good point. Actually I often dreamt that if I was a multi millionaire I'd bankroll for example 10 junior Spanish coaches to travel around the country and train our coaches purely on developing player technique. They in turn would pass this on to teams they coach between 8-12 year olds.

Unfortunately I'm not a rich man!